Is teeth whitening illegal for non-dentists?
Asked by den201
20 answers
Top answer
DrDemirAny dental procedure can only legally be provided by General Dental Council registered dental professionals (Dentists, dental hygienists, dental therapists, dental nurses) that have had suitable training for the procedures being carried out.
Teeth whitening is considered to be practice of dentistry and can only be provided by registered dental professionals.
In our experience, most patients actually only need a hygienist scale and airpolish to remove staining, and in any case this should be carried out before any further whitening is done. If there is deposits on your teeth, any whitening material will not get through the deposit to reach the tooth, and the treatment results will be patchy and poor.
Get the advice of a good dentist before having any work done on your teeth. Your safety is the reason why the General Dental Council monitors and ensures you are being treated by qualified, trained, competent professionals.
Teeth whitening is considered to be practice of dentistry and can only be provided by registered dental professionals.
In our experience, most patients actually only need a hygienist scale and airpolish to remove staining, and in any case this should be carried out before any further whitening is done. If there is deposits on your teeth, any whitening material will not get through the deposit to reach the tooth, and the treatment results will be patchy and poor.
Get the advice of a good dentist before having any work done on your teeth. Your safety is the reason why the General Dental Council monitors and ensures you are being treated by qualified, trained, competent professionals.
Search Treatwell for Teeth Whitening near you
BromleyMum
To date people have been prosecuted for using all types of teeth whitening systems, Megawhite has been particularly publicised. Tooth whitening is the practice of dentistry. Although people are claiming it is a cosmetic procedure, it is a cosmetic procedure within the realms of dentistry, NOT beauty. I was almost prosecuted by the GDC so I fully understand the legal implications for a non dental professional carrying out this service. Professional Beauty are largely to blame for allowing this to happen at their shows. So a warning, just because it is there at the show it does not mean that it is legal for you to do. Leave teeth whitening to the dentists, they are qualified to pre assess and give advice and successfully carry out this treatment.
fartie
is teeth whitening legal to be carried out by a non registered dentist
fartie
is teeth whitening legal to be carried out by a non registered dentist
BromleyMum
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Illegal-tooth-whitener-fined-fifteen-thousand-pounds.aspx
Illegal tooth whitener fined fifteen thousand pounds
26 August 2014
Illegal tooth whitener fined fifteen thousand pounds
The UK regulator of dental practice, the General Dental Council (GDC), has successfully prosecuted a Wirral-based man for unlawfully practising dentistry.
On 26 August 2014 Wayne Roberts was found guilty at Wirral Magistrates’ Court of two offences of unlawful dentistry (namely tooth whitening), contrary to section 38 (1) and (2) of the Dentists Act 1984 and one offence of unlawful use of title, namely ‘Dental Technician’, contrary to section 39 (1) and (3).
Mr Roberts didn’t attend court.
He’s been fined £5000 on each count (a total of £15,000) and ordered to pay a £500 victim surcharge. Mr Roberts was also ordered to pay full costs to the GDC of £3167.25.
The offences took place at Caldy Clinic, 161 Banks Road, West Kirby, Wirral, Merseyside, CH48 3HU and Caldy Clinic, 49 Rodney Street, Liverpool, L1 9EW.
Mr Roberts is linked to the provision of illegal tooth whitening using the ‘Megawhite’ brand of products.
By law, only dentists, dental hygienists, dental therapists and clinical dental technicians (working to the prescription of a dentist) can carry out tooth whitening.
By law all dentists, dental nurses, dental technicians, clinical dental technicians, dental hygienists, dental therapists and orthodontic therapists must be registered with the GDC to work in the UK. This is to ensure only appropriately qualified and skilled dental professionals are part of the dental team looking after patients.
Wayne was selling the Megawhite teeth whitening product, as Megawhite claims it is 100% legal, peroxide free and client administered. Wayne STILL GOT FINED.
Illegal tooth whitener fined fifteen thousand pounds
26 August 2014
Illegal tooth whitener fined fifteen thousand pounds
The UK regulator of dental practice, the General Dental Council (GDC), has successfully prosecuted a Wirral-based man for unlawfully practising dentistry.
On 26 August 2014 Wayne Roberts was found guilty at Wirral Magistrates’ Court of two offences of unlawful dentistry (namely tooth whitening), contrary to section 38 (1) and (2) of the Dentists Act 1984 and one offence of unlawful use of title, namely ‘Dental Technician’, contrary to section 39 (1) and (3).
Mr Roberts didn’t attend court.
He’s been fined £5000 on each count (a total of £15,000) and ordered to pay a £500 victim surcharge. Mr Roberts was also ordered to pay full costs to the GDC of £3167.25.
The offences took place at Caldy Clinic, 161 Banks Road, West Kirby, Wirral, Merseyside, CH48 3HU and Caldy Clinic, 49 Rodney Street, Liverpool, L1 9EW.
Mr Roberts is linked to the provision of illegal tooth whitening using the ‘Megawhite’ brand of products.
By law, only dentists, dental hygienists, dental therapists and clinical dental technicians (working to the prescription of a dentist) can carry out tooth whitening.
By law all dentists, dental nurses, dental technicians, clinical dental technicians, dental hygienists, dental therapists and orthodontic therapists must be registered with the GDC to work in the UK. This is to ensure only appropriately qualified and skilled dental professionals are part of the dental team looking after patients.
Wayne was selling the Megawhite teeth whitening product, as Megawhite claims it is 100% legal, peroxide free and client administered. Wayne STILL GOT FINED.
BromleyMum
Yes it is illegal.
Regardless of what agent is used in the mouth, peroxide, non peroxide, self administered, read The General Dental council website and Trading Standards and the NHS. It is crystal clear.
No one but a Qualified dentist with a current GDC number or a person working to the prescription of a dentist can whiten teeth. You also cannot give advice or make suggestions to clients. You can get a £5000 fine, there has been a successful prosecution every few weeks so far this year. Don't let the teeth whitening companies mislead you, they just want to SELL.
I also refer to The Mirror newspaper article on Thursday 6th March 2014 - Andrew Penman Investigates.
Pearlywhites doesn't know what she is talking about.
Regardless of what agent is used in the mouth, peroxide, non peroxide, self administered, read The General Dental council website and Trading Standards and the NHS. It is crystal clear.
No one but a Qualified dentist with a current GDC number or a person working to the prescription of a dentist can whiten teeth. You also cannot give advice or make suggestions to clients. You can get a £5000 fine, there has been a successful prosecution every few weeks so far this year. Don't let the teeth whitening companies mislead you, they just want to SELL.
I also refer to The Mirror newspaper article on Thursday 6th March 2014 - Andrew Penman Investigates.
Pearlywhites doesn't know what she is talking about.
LittleMissHappy
There is only Case Law at present which states that only dentists can provide teeth whitening, however, the EU Commission are currently investing the UK for ignoring their EU Laws.
The GDC need to have a complainant in order to prosecute regardless if the complainant is genuine or not, they also need a contact address in order to issue with a summons.
Since the high court ruling in May 2013 it is now deemed illegal to carry out teeth whitening unless you are a registered dentist with the GDC. The ruling is currently being appealed so this may alter the current situation, the matter is delayed because Lord Justice Moses did not certify his ruling, thus preventing a straight forward appeal to the Supreme courts. It appears the UK have breached EU Laws.
The GDC need to have a complainant in order to prosecute regardless if the complainant is genuine or not, they also need a contact address in order to issue with a summons.
Since the high court ruling in May 2013 it is now deemed illegal to carry out teeth whitening unless you are a registered dentist with the GDC. The ruling is currently being appealed so this may alter the current situation, the matter is delayed because Lord Justice Moses did not certify his ruling, thus preventing a straight forward appeal to the Supreme courts. It appears the UK have breached EU Laws.
Ahealy
Elaine Taylor Valles was convicted in Preston Crown of the criminal act of practising dentistry while not a registered dentist or professional complementary to dentistry.
This is now Case Law, and removes any ambiguity, real or imagined, on this matter.
Anyone who is not in the GDC dental register and who provides tooth bleaching services to the public is committing a criminal act.
The court was lenient in her case, giving her a 9 month conditional discharge and. A relatively small fine.
They are unlikely to be so lenient in the future, as nobody now has any excuse for misunderstanding or being ignorant of the law.
She has a criminal record for the rest of her life.
Was that really worth it, just to make some money by carrying out an invasive procedure that she was not qualified to do?
A. Healy
This is now Case Law, and removes any ambiguity, real or imagined, on this matter.
Anyone who is not in the GDC dental register and who provides tooth bleaching services to the public is committing a criminal act.
The court was lenient in her case, giving her a 9 month conditional discharge and. A relatively small fine.
They are unlikely to be so lenient in the future, as nobody now has any excuse for misunderstanding or being ignorant of the law.
She has a criminal record for the rest of her life.
Was that really worth it, just to make some money by carrying out an invasive procedure that she was not qualified to do?
A. Healy
Ahealy
Elaine Taylor Valles was convicted in Preston Crown of the criminal act of practising dentistry while not a registered dentist or professional complementary to dentistry.
This is now Case Law, and removes any ambiguity, real or imagined, on this matter.
Anyone who is not in the GDC dental register and who provides tooth bleaching services to the public is committing a criminal act.
The court was lenient in her case, giving her a 9 month conditional discharge and. A relatively small fine.
They are unlikely to be so lenient in the future, as nobody now has any excuse for misunderstanding or being ignorant of the law.
She has a criminal record for the rest of her life.
Was that really worth it, just to make some money by carrying out an invasive procedure that she was not qualified to do?
A. Healy
This is now Case Law, and removes any ambiguity, real or imagined, on this matter.
Anyone who is not in the GDC dental register and who provides tooth bleaching services to the public is committing a criminal act.
The court was lenient in her case, giving her a 9 month conditional discharge and. A relatively small fine.
They are unlikely to be so lenient in the future, as nobody now has any excuse for misunderstanding or being ignorant of the law.
She has a criminal record for the rest of her life.
Was that really worth it, just to make some money by carrying out an invasive procedure that she was not qualified to do?
A. Healy
fiacloir
The answer is a clear YES, it is illegal for non dentists: see the ruling.
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Tooth-whitening-is-dentistry,-High-Court-confirms.aspx
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Tooth-whitening-is-dentistry,-High-Court-confirms.aspx
Zippy
It is completely illegal in the UK for anybody not registered by the GDC. The GDC is a govermental regulating body set up to protect patients. Until very recently it was a grey area for even dentists. From a concerned NHS maxilla facial dental nurse who has seen first hand what happens when these unqualified clowns in salons mess up!
anon0101
Hi I happened to stumble on this thread by accident. I have read the comments that people have posted. I have been involved in the teeth whitening industry for nearly 10 years. I have used all types of gels and tried every available technique. I’m also fully aware of the legislation and Im aware of nearly every available teeth whitening product on the market. Im keeping anonymous because I dont want to be accused of advertising on this site.
The current legislation states that only a dentist can supply a whitening product that contains or emits from 0.1% up to a maximum of 6% hydrogen peroxide. Only trading standards can enforce this law and if you are using above these limits then so they should. The separate issue is who can and cannot do teeth whitening. This is enforced by the General Dental Council (GDC) they believe that only a dentist should be doing teeth whitening and will try and prosecute anyone doing the treatment who is not a registered dentist. They can only bring about a prosecution if they have a witness to testify that some kind of damage or harm was caused by the person providing the treatment or if you are providing procedures that a dentist would normally do ie being invasive in the mouth.
High Concentration Peroxide based whitening gels can only be safely applied by
firstly applying a gum dam to protect the gums
secondly the peroxide gel must be directly applied onto each tooth by hand
thirdly the gel should be removed by suctioning it off the teeth using a dental suction system to avoid the gel falling into the mouth where it could cause damage.
You can see that by doing the above you are administering procedures that normally a dentist would do hence why you can again be prosecuted by the GDC for carrying out acts of dentistry.
If you use high concentration peroxide and are not careful there is no doubt that there can be damage to the soft tissue in the mouth and this can lead down the road to be prosecuted by Trading Standards and the GDC.
There have been non peroxide teeth whitening products on the market for a while the earliest types had limited success at providing good results.
We now have newer gels that are offering better results; the two most common types of gel now available are Sodium Perborate based gels and even newer ones containing sodium bicarbonate. I would stress though that its not just about the chemicals in the gel its also about who is supplying the gel to you. There are few legitimate manufacturers of non peroxide whitening gel and a lot of the gels that are on sale are actually rip off copies of original manufacturer formulas. If you purchase from a supplier who can trace their gels back to the point of origin then the gel should contain or emit less than 0.1% hydrogen peroxide and your supplier should be able to supply you with a test report for the gel that you use that specifies that it complies with the Cosmetic Safety Regulations 2012. (See the link)
Also ask your supplier to put you in touch with previous customers that they have supplied to and get feedback from them. If you are dealing with a reputable supplier the training that they provide should be recognised by insurance companies as long as you are using legal products in order to insure you against any treatment risk. Some insurers will ask that the practitioner have a minimum qualification normally NVQ in beauty therapy.
These non peroxide based gels do not need to be administered the way peroxide gels do as mentioned above. The reason is, because they do not contain high concentrations of peroxide they will not cause adverse effects to the teeth or gums. When it comes to administering a procedure it requires the gel to be applied into a device that holds the gel in place against the teeth which the client puts into their own mouth thus providing a treatment process that requires no physical contact between the provider and the client making the procedure self administered and thus not infringing on the peroxide legislation and also the GDC’S opinions. On top of all that there are other steps in the techniques used in the procedure which must be taken that will ensure you get better results.
The current legislation states that only a dentist can supply a whitening product that contains or emits from 0.1% up to a maximum of 6% hydrogen peroxide. Only trading standards can enforce this law and if you are using above these limits then so they should. The separate issue is who can and cannot do teeth whitening. This is enforced by the General Dental Council (GDC) they believe that only a dentist should be doing teeth whitening and will try and prosecute anyone doing the treatment who is not a registered dentist. They can only bring about a prosecution if they have a witness to testify that some kind of damage or harm was caused by the person providing the treatment or if you are providing procedures that a dentist would normally do ie being invasive in the mouth.
High Concentration Peroxide based whitening gels can only be safely applied by
firstly applying a gum dam to protect the gums
secondly the peroxide gel must be directly applied onto each tooth by hand
thirdly the gel should be removed by suctioning it off the teeth using a dental suction system to avoid the gel falling into the mouth where it could cause damage.
You can see that by doing the above you are administering procedures that normally a dentist would do hence why you can again be prosecuted by the GDC for carrying out acts of dentistry.
If you use high concentration peroxide and are not careful there is no doubt that there can be damage to the soft tissue in the mouth and this can lead down the road to be prosecuted by Trading Standards and the GDC.
There have been non peroxide teeth whitening products on the market for a while the earliest types had limited success at providing good results.
We now have newer gels that are offering better results; the two most common types of gel now available are Sodium Perborate based gels and even newer ones containing sodium bicarbonate. I would stress though that its not just about the chemicals in the gel its also about who is supplying the gel to you. There are few legitimate manufacturers of non peroxide whitening gel and a lot of the gels that are on sale are actually rip off copies of original manufacturer formulas. If you purchase from a supplier who can trace their gels back to the point of origin then the gel should contain or emit less than 0.1% hydrogen peroxide and your supplier should be able to supply you with a test report for the gel that you use that specifies that it complies with the Cosmetic Safety Regulations 2012. (See the link)
Also ask your supplier to put you in touch with previous customers that they have supplied to and get feedback from them. If you are dealing with a reputable supplier the training that they provide should be recognised by insurance companies as long as you are using legal products in order to insure you against any treatment risk. Some insurers will ask that the practitioner have a minimum qualification normally NVQ in beauty therapy.
These non peroxide based gels do not need to be administered the way peroxide gels do as mentioned above. The reason is, because they do not contain high concentrations of peroxide they will not cause adverse effects to the teeth or gums. When it comes to administering a procedure it requires the gel to be applied into a device that holds the gel in place against the teeth which the client puts into their own mouth thus providing a treatment process that requires no physical contact between the provider and the client making the procedure self administered and thus not infringing on the peroxide legislation and also the GDC’S opinions. On top of all that there are other steps in the techniques used in the procedure which must be taken that will ensure you get better results.
Comments
BromleyMum
Ummm....... Sodium Perborate a chemical used in Industrial degreaser, Banned since 2012 in the UK for use in any product that comes into contact with skin as it causes Cancer, Birth Defects, Foetal Abnormalities, infertility and the list goes on.......
BromleyMum
Ummm....... Sodium Perborate a chemical used in Industrial degreaser, Banned since 2012 in the UK for use in any product that comes into contact with skin as it causes Cancer, Birth Defects, Foetal Abnormalities, infertility and the list goes on.......
justiceteethwhitening
PLATFORM FOR JUSTICE IN TEETH WHITENING SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT
After months of bad press and no small amount of controversy regarding the status of teeth whitening in the UK, a group of providers who use non-peroxide gels - which contain or release up to 0.1% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) - have launched an association called Platform For Justice in Teeth Whitening, in order to protect their rights.
As a first step, the group has drawn up a manifesto, which bears witness to the harassment they are suffering from the GDC, and points to the lack of a legal basis for the Council’s position, in addition to the failure of the UK authorities to put an end to this situation.
A number of articles published by the GDC in recent times have caused not only irreparable damage to the reputation of many spas, salons and teeth whitening companies, but also serious financial loss on their part.
Platform for Justice in Teeth Whitening hopes that their manifesto, based on REAL FACTS, will help to clarify the status of teeth whitening in the UK.
As the Platform explains, the General Dental Council BELIEVES that tooth whitening, regardless of the gel used, should be considered the act of dentistry and that it should therefore be restricted to dental professionals only. However, this position clearly contradicts the provisions of European Directive 2011/84/EU, which states that a dental background is only required when gels of Hydrogen Peroxide are used between 0.1% and 6% H2O2 and not when they contain less than 0.1%.
A spokesperson for the Platform says "the GDC clearly disregards the provisions of the above-mentioned EU Directive and bases their position on the Dentist Act of 1984. Surprisingly enough this act doesnʼt deem teeth whitening as an act of dentistry - it doesnʼt even mention the words “whitening” or “ bleaching” - and it was drafted in 1984, when chair-side tooth whitening wasnʼt even practiced in the UK".
According to the Platform, not even section 38 of the aforementioned Act - which the GDC usually refers to in their threatening letters to spas and salons - seems to be applicable. Section 38 states, "a person who is not a registered dentist […] shall not practise or hold himself out, whether directly and by implication, as practicing or as being prepared to practise dentistry”.
“Spas and Salons don’t hold themselves out as being prepared to practice dentistry. They offer a cosmetic treatment, as sanctioned by the European Commission”, underlines the spokesperson for the Platform.
According to them, in reality the whole conflict between dentist and non-dentist is based on the GDC's OPINION, this being that they BELIEVE that tooth whitening constitutes an act of dentistry, even though no UK or EU law confirms their interpretation.
The Platform urges the UK authorities to defend the rights of any citizen who chooses to offer this safe cosmetic service, as long as they comply with the law, and further, reminds the Department of Health of their obligation to remain unbiased. The members of the Platform accept that opinions have their place in certain circumstances, however opinion must never override the law, and neither should our rulers turn a blind eye to situations in which the rights of UK individuals are being violated.
The Platform hopes that the Manifesto will give their cause the public awareness it deserves and that the authorities will finally put an end to this conflict of interest, which has no basis in law.
For more information, please contact admin@platformforjusticeteethwhitening.info
To download the entire manifesto, please click: http://platformforjusticeteethwhitening.info/
After months of bad press and no small amount of controversy regarding the status of teeth whitening in the UK, a group of providers who use non-peroxide gels - which contain or release up to 0.1% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) - have launched an association called Platform For Justice in Teeth Whitening, in order to protect their rights.
As a first step, the group has drawn up a manifesto, which bears witness to the harassment they are suffering from the GDC, and points to the lack of a legal basis for the Council’s position, in addition to the failure of the UK authorities to put an end to this situation.
A number of articles published by the GDC in recent times have caused not only irreparable damage to the reputation of many spas, salons and teeth whitening companies, but also serious financial loss on their part.
Platform for Justice in Teeth Whitening hopes that their manifesto, based on REAL FACTS, will help to clarify the status of teeth whitening in the UK.
As the Platform explains, the General Dental Council BELIEVES that tooth whitening, regardless of the gel used, should be considered the act of dentistry and that it should therefore be restricted to dental professionals only. However, this position clearly contradicts the provisions of European Directive 2011/84/EU, which states that a dental background is only required when gels of Hydrogen Peroxide are used between 0.1% and 6% H2O2 and not when they contain less than 0.1%.
A spokesperson for the Platform says "the GDC clearly disregards the provisions of the above-mentioned EU Directive and bases their position on the Dentist Act of 1984. Surprisingly enough this act doesnʼt deem teeth whitening as an act of dentistry - it doesnʼt even mention the words “whitening” or “ bleaching” - and it was drafted in 1984, when chair-side tooth whitening wasnʼt even practiced in the UK".
According to the Platform, not even section 38 of the aforementioned Act - which the GDC usually refers to in their threatening letters to spas and salons - seems to be applicable. Section 38 states, "a person who is not a registered dentist […] shall not practise or hold himself out, whether directly and by implication, as practicing or as being prepared to practise dentistry”.
“Spas and Salons don’t hold themselves out as being prepared to practice dentistry. They offer a cosmetic treatment, as sanctioned by the European Commission”, underlines the spokesperson for the Platform.
According to them, in reality the whole conflict between dentist and non-dentist is based on the GDC's OPINION, this being that they BELIEVE that tooth whitening constitutes an act of dentistry, even though no UK or EU law confirms their interpretation.
The Platform urges the UK authorities to defend the rights of any citizen who chooses to offer this safe cosmetic service, as long as they comply with the law, and further, reminds the Department of Health of their obligation to remain unbiased. The members of the Platform accept that opinions have their place in certain circumstances, however opinion must never override the law, and neither should our rulers turn a blind eye to situations in which the rights of UK individuals are being violated.
The Platform hopes that the Manifesto will give their cause the public awareness it deserves and that the authorities will finally put an end to this conflict of interest, which has no basis in law.
For more information, please contact admin@platformforjusticeteethwhitening.info
To download the entire manifesto, please click: http://platformforjusticeteethwhitening.info/
Comments
WDRes
WARNING TO PUBLIC: ABOVE HAS BEEN WRITTEN BY A SCAMSTER - Please see earlier comment beneath their justice teethwhitening comment earlier. BELIEVE AT YOUR PERIL FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR TEETH ABD YOUR WALLET. Illegal criminals involved in widepspread criminal scam. Source- GOV.
justiceteethwhitening
Sorry but you seem to know nothing about the gels or about laws. So according to you, gels that contain or release less than 0.1% don't whiten? Really? Interesting, then why do dentists use sodium perborate to do internal bleaching? Please respond. Are dentists also defrauding the authorities then?? Oh, and what about sodium bicarbonate, papain, etc? Those have less than 0.1% hp and they do whiten teeth. Or are you saying that companies like Colgate and all the big companies that sell whitening tooth paste based on sodium bicarbonate, are scammers?? Really? Is that what you are saying? I suggest that you do your homework before you make a fool of yourself in public. You know NOTHING about sodium perborate, sodium bicarbonate and peroxide. And you certainly know nothing about law. You go and check with a lawyer and they will tell you the truth. The truth that the GDC doesn't want to hear. Please do that, please ask any lawyer you want and you will see. By the way, are you even aware that the UK is part of the European Union? Just making sure. Dear Dr Demir, no disrespect but you are a dentist and you will repeat what the GDC says without even questioning it. The GDC cannot make laws, I am sorry to tell you. House of Lords and the EU are very clear and what the GDC says is respectable but not what the law says. The Dentist Act of 1984 does NOT deem tooth whitening as the act of dentistry. Facts are facts.
WDRes
WARNING TO GENERAL PUBLIC: ILLEGAL SCAMSTER WRITING ABOVE: - Please see earlier comment on page above warning of this. Always check with independent legitimate sources or simple internet search. FINANCIAL SCAMS ARE BAD ENOUGH BUT THIS ONE INVOLVES RISK OF PERMANENT DAMAGE TO HEALTH.
den201
Hi WDres
I am quite concerned about the allegations of the majority of forum members being tarred as criminals or 'scammers', some people on this forum:
1. Attended government registered providers for their training.
2. Received government grants for said training.
3. Received Training certificates that do not mention teeth whitening, but use of the system/equipment.
4. Have permission from Trading Standards in writing to use peroxide, presumably because the were considered safe operators.
5. Use products with Product Safety certificates.
6. Check the products on themselves and willing volunteers before using on the public.
7. Liaise with the scientific officers of said products for advice and safety queries.
8. Contact the EU before starting a business in the UK.
9. Monitor every client post treatment.
10. Have been praised by dentists for their approach and the job they have done.
There are rogue operators in every industry and the teeth whitening business is no different to any other. Dentists take money for illegal teeth whitening and have harmed customers severely. This evidence can be found at a click of a button.
I am quite concerned about the allegations of the majority of forum members being tarred as criminals or 'scammers', some people on this forum:
1. Attended government registered providers for their training.
2. Received government grants for said training.
3. Received Training certificates that do not mention teeth whitening, but use of the system/equipment.
4. Have permission from Trading Standards in writing to use peroxide, presumably because the were considered safe operators.
5. Use products with Product Safety certificates.
6. Check the products on themselves and willing volunteers before using on the public.
7. Liaise with the scientific officers of said products for advice and safety queries.
8. Contact the EU before starting a business in the UK.
9. Monitor every client post treatment.
10. Have been praised by dentists for their approach and the job they have done.
There are rogue operators in every industry and the teeth whitening business is no different to any other. Dentists take money for illegal teeth whitening and have harmed customers severely. This evidence can be found at a click of a button.
WDRes
AVOID SCAMSTERS SUCH AS CLAIRE CHARD OPERATING ILLEGALLY IN THE KINGS LANGLEY AREA. Many other criminals like her endangering public health. No shame.
leprechaun
it is illegal to take part in the practice of dentistry and thats all there is to it. Its nothing to do with what you use, how busy a dental practice is etc, it is illegal to impersonate a dentist full stop!
the 1984 dental act spells it out in black and white and all of those that sell whitening classes to teach people how to be tooth whitening practitioners are effectively snake oil salesmen. It is illegal, get over it.
the 1984 dental act spells it out in black and white and all of those that sell whitening classes to teach people how to be tooth whitening practitioners are effectively snake oil salesmen. It is illegal, get over it.
leprechaun
I'd also like to see what government grants are available to take part in illegal tooth whitening as none exist, trading standards don't allow anyone other than a dentist to take part in dentistry, point 10 praised by dentists! lmao at that one. point 1. attended government registered providers for training? who would they be as i've been in dentistry for 22 years and have never heard of it.
den201
Hi Leprechaun
Your are misguided, please provide evidence to the contrary.
Your are misguided, please provide evidence to the contrary.
den201
Trading standards advice (leaflet):
Trading Standards have recently examined whether or not there is a problem with businesses supplying teeth whitening products containing illegally high levels of hydrogen peroxide.
This briefing is produced as a consequence of the results of this project and is intended to advise businesses of the laws that apply in relation to the supply of these products and how to keep your business within the law.
Who is Affected?
Anyone who sells, or offers, teeth whitening products to consumers, either in a shop, online or as a treatment at your beauty salon/dental surgery.
There is no distinction between products bought by consumers and self applied and those applied during a course of treatment by a professional.
Cosmetic Product?
Defined by The Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008 as referring to
six functions: -
• To clean
• To perfume
• To change the appearance
• To protect
• To keep in good condition
• To correct body odours
The field of application is to:
• The hair system
• The lips
• The nails
• The epidermis
• The external genital organs
• The teeth and inside the mouth
Teeth Whitening products are applied to the teeth and inside the mouth and they are exclusively to change the appearance of coloured teeth and there is little doubt that they are deemed to be cosmetic products.
This is an area of work that is enforced by Trading Standards.
Summary of the Law
The Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008 prohibit and restrict the use and supply of certain ingredients in cosmetic products supplied to consumers.
Many teeth whitening products can contain more than the safe and permitted level of hydrogen peroxide and anyone who supplies these to consumers can commit an offence. The maximum permitted level of hydrogen peroxide is 0.1%. This percentage relates to amounts of hydrogen peroxide present in the product itself, but it also relates to other chemical ingredients which when added together give off hydrogen peroxide i.e. carbamide peroxide.
The purpose of the legislation is to protect consumers from unsafe cosmetic products being supplied to them.
The change in the law form 1.11.12 increased the level of peroxide that can be used under supervision by Dentists to 6% HP. Prior to this change 1000s of UK dentists performed teeth whitening illegally. Some also used peroxide above the SCCP safety limit of 6%HP
Agencies helping the unemployed/small businesses have provided grants to people wishing to set up teeth whitening business in the past 5 years after checking the credentials of the training provider.
People have letters from trading standards pre 1.11.12 allowing them to deliver teeth whitening using peroxide products. Consumer safety was monitored in these situations.
Trading Standards have recently examined whether or not there is a problem with businesses supplying teeth whitening products containing illegally high levels of hydrogen peroxide.
This briefing is produced as a consequence of the results of this project and is intended to advise businesses of the laws that apply in relation to the supply of these products and how to keep your business within the law.
Who is Affected?
Anyone who sells, or offers, teeth whitening products to consumers, either in a shop, online or as a treatment at your beauty salon/dental surgery.
There is no distinction between products bought by consumers and self applied and those applied during a course of treatment by a professional.
Cosmetic Product?
Defined by The Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008 as referring to
six functions: -
• To clean
• To perfume
• To change the appearance
• To protect
• To keep in good condition
• To correct body odours
The field of application is to:
• The hair system
• The lips
• The nails
• The epidermis
• The external genital organs
• The teeth and inside the mouth
Teeth Whitening products are applied to the teeth and inside the mouth and they are exclusively to change the appearance of coloured teeth and there is little doubt that they are deemed to be cosmetic products.
This is an area of work that is enforced by Trading Standards.
Summary of the Law
The Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008 prohibit and restrict the use and supply of certain ingredients in cosmetic products supplied to consumers.
Many teeth whitening products can contain more than the safe and permitted level of hydrogen peroxide and anyone who supplies these to consumers can commit an offence. The maximum permitted level of hydrogen peroxide is 0.1%. This percentage relates to amounts of hydrogen peroxide present in the product itself, but it also relates to other chemical ingredients which when added together give off hydrogen peroxide i.e. carbamide peroxide.
The purpose of the legislation is to protect consumers from unsafe cosmetic products being supplied to them.
The change in the law form 1.11.12 increased the level of peroxide that can be used under supervision by Dentists to 6% HP. Prior to this change 1000s of UK dentists performed teeth whitening illegally. Some also used peroxide above the SCCP safety limit of 6%HP
Agencies helping the unemployed/small businesses have provided grants to people wishing to set up teeth whitening business in the past 5 years after checking the credentials of the training provider.
People have letters from trading standards pre 1.11.12 allowing them to deliver teeth whitening using peroxide products. Consumer safety was monitored in these situations.
den201
http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/2012/2263/made/data.htm?wrap=true
EU Verification of the Law
Confirmation has been provided in writing from the EU Commission that non-dental professionals are permitted to use products containing or releasing up to 0.1% peroxide without training or qualifications and there are no restrictions as to who can administer the cosmetic teeth whitening treatment. The new legislation also applies to other peroxide products for hair, skin and nails.
In accordance with the provisions of Directive 2011/84/UE, products whitening or bleaching teeth containing 0.1% or less of hydrogen peroxide present or released can be freely placed on the market and can be readily available to consumers. The Directive does not impose restrictions on the training of people who would use these products. Consumers themselves can apply these products, as well as dentists or others.
EU Verification of the Law
Confirmation has been provided in writing from the EU Commission that non-dental professionals are permitted to use products containing or releasing up to 0.1% peroxide without training or qualifications and there are no restrictions as to who can administer the cosmetic teeth whitening treatment. The new legislation also applies to other peroxide products for hair, skin and nails.
In accordance with the provisions of Directive 2011/84/UE, products whitening or bleaching teeth containing 0.1% or less of hydrogen peroxide present or released can be freely placed on the market and can be readily available to consumers. The Directive does not impose restrictions on the training of people who would use these products. Consumers themselves can apply these products, as well as dentists or others.
fiacloir
Den201:
Why would i pay some unqualified person, who won't follow cross infection control as specified in HTMO105 and isn't registered with any supervisory body (trading standards doesn't count), to apply 0.1% peroxide on my teeth, when i could buy a bottle of Peroxyl mouthwash (1.5%) which would have more of an effect ?
Of course you can use 0.1%HP.......because it doesn't do any harm....AND IT DOESN"T WORK.
If you want the job done correctly, use carbamide peroxide/hydrogen peroxide provided by a qualified, regulated dentist who is LEGALLY allowed to whiten teeth.
The GDC can and will prosecute those who use above 0.1% HP
see link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2232745/Barrington-Armstrong-Thorpe-jailed-16-months-selling-illegal-tooth-whitening-gel-online-100-TIMES-safe-level-cleaning-chemicals.html#axzz2JkFbskMQ
Why would i pay some unqualified person, who won't follow cross infection control as specified in HTMO105 and isn't registered with any supervisory body (trading standards doesn't count), to apply 0.1% peroxide on my teeth, when i could buy a bottle of Peroxyl mouthwash (1.5%) which would have more of an effect ?
Of course you can use 0.1%HP.......because it doesn't do any harm....AND IT DOESN"T WORK.
If you want the job done correctly, use carbamide peroxide/hydrogen peroxide provided by a qualified, regulated dentist who is LEGALLY allowed to whiten teeth.
The GDC can and will prosecute those who use above 0.1% HP
see link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2232745/Barrington-Armstrong-Thorpe-jailed-16-months-selling-illegal-tooth-whitening-gel-online-100-TIMES-safe-level-cleaning-chemicals.html#axzz2JkFbskMQ
den201
I am not saying you have to.
You are not providing any information that people do not not already know.
There are many who say it does work and some companies give a money back guarantee, which the dentist never do..
Beauticians carry out many procedures that require hygiene protocols to be carried out. I would hope this was the same for the dentist too.
People can bye a hair dye for £4 from the chemist, but choose to pay £50-£100 for someone to do the work for them. Why go to the dentist and pay up to £900, when you can buy a home kit.
Providing the customer has informed choice and the provider meets the relevant regulations then there should not be a problem..
You are not providing any information that people do not not already know.
There are many who say it does work and some companies give a money back guarantee, which the dentist never do..
Beauticians carry out many procedures that require hygiene protocols to be carried out. I would hope this was the same for the dentist too.
People can bye a hair dye for £4 from the chemist, but choose to pay £50-£100 for someone to do the work for them. Why go to the dentist and pay up to £900, when you can buy a home kit.
Providing the customer has informed choice and the provider meets the relevant regulations then there should not be a problem..
den201
P.S. I have tested a non peroxide product on my top teeth to compare with the bottom and there was a noticeable difference in 15 minutes and a significant change in 30 minutes, without any discomfort or sensitivity.
As a dentist, you will know cancer treatments and morphine have an impact on teeth and can cause discoloration due to the effect on the salivary glands. I have had 2 treatments on my head and I am the wrong side of middle age.
I have a recent commercial interest in the product and it is not appropriate to advertise it on this forum. However, if you do your research you will come across products that guarantee results and change can be achieved in 30 minutes. One of these products has been invented by a leading scientist known to the dental community worldwide.
I understand new products are now on the market for dentists that surpass enlighten and can deliver results in one hour, but customers are paying £400 for this treatment. The feedback in the press from the patient who had received the Zoom treatment in the past said the teeth were much cleaner but the not as good as Zoom, however he had no horrendous sensitivity.
The new legislation appears to be generating innovation, more choice as well as better and safer products for the consumer. This is good news for the beauty industry, which some dentists have decided to join.
Consumers have a great deal of choice, which can be very confusing. However, there are dozens of hair dyes, wrinkle creams and 1000's of beauty treatments to choose from. As with all purchases, it is up to the consumer to do their research and to complain if they are dissatisfied.
You can now buy be-spoke spectacles on line for a fraction of the cost that you pay at the high street opticians, all you need is your prescription which only costs £10-£20. The service is amazing and much faster!
Dentists have whitened teeth for years illegally and the horrors are reported on the net.
Beauticians are equally to blame.
The public expects their doctor or dentist to behave professionally and not to carry out illegal treatments. Many still advertise Zoom etc. Illegally activity in seedy gyms and back street salons with skin whitening and melontan injections etc. is expected.
Finally, trading standards are the front line regulator of the beauty industry and some authorities have decided to regulate another unregulated industry - hairdressers. Two women have died using at home hair dye kits.
Trading standards have the power to bring the teeth whitening industry in line if they choose to do so. Many are visiting businesses, but are not telling them they are trading illegally - why?
As a dentist, you will know cancer treatments and morphine have an impact on teeth and can cause discoloration due to the effect on the salivary glands. I have had 2 treatments on my head and I am the wrong side of middle age.
I have a recent commercial interest in the product and it is not appropriate to advertise it on this forum. However, if you do your research you will come across products that guarantee results and change can be achieved in 30 minutes. One of these products has been invented by a leading scientist known to the dental community worldwide.
I understand new products are now on the market for dentists that surpass enlighten and can deliver results in one hour, but customers are paying £400 for this treatment. The feedback in the press from the patient who had received the Zoom treatment in the past said the teeth were much cleaner but the not as good as Zoom, however he had no horrendous sensitivity.
The new legislation appears to be generating innovation, more choice as well as better and safer products for the consumer. This is good news for the beauty industry, which some dentists have decided to join.
Consumers have a great deal of choice, which can be very confusing. However, there are dozens of hair dyes, wrinkle creams and 1000's of beauty treatments to choose from. As with all purchases, it is up to the consumer to do their research and to complain if they are dissatisfied.
You can now buy be-spoke spectacles on line for a fraction of the cost that you pay at the high street opticians, all you need is your prescription which only costs £10-£20. The service is amazing and much faster!
Dentists have whitened teeth for years illegally and the horrors are reported on the net.
Beauticians are equally to blame.
The public expects their doctor or dentist to behave professionally and not to carry out illegal treatments. Many still advertise Zoom etc. Illegally activity in seedy gyms and back street salons with skin whitening and melontan injections etc. is expected.
Finally, trading standards are the front line regulator of the beauty industry and some authorities have decided to regulate another unregulated industry - hairdressers. Two women have died using at home hair dye kits.
Trading standards have the power to bring the teeth whitening industry in line if they choose to do so. Many are visiting businesses, but are not telling them they are trading illegally - why?
fiacloir
den201
you say that i am providing information that people already know. I don't think they do, as they hear lies from illegal tooth whiteners...
You are unable to address the point i made ( about those non-dentists providing illegal tooth whitening, not following adequate cross infection control procedures). you clearly have no knowledge of HTMO105 etc. Any person sticking their hands and chemical into the publics mouths needs to follow these.
Do you have emergency drug kits to treat anyphylactic reactions to these products, and the training to use these? Can you recognise crowns and veneers in the mouth and describe how they may alter the tooth whitening procedure?
I SUSPECT THE ANSWER IS NO......
you said:
'Beauticians carry out many procedures that require hygiene protocols to be carried out. I would hope this was the same for the dentist too.'
This statement is hilarious. there is no beautician in the country forced to follow cross infection control procedures dentist do.
You clearly have no knowledge that ZOOM is not illegal and dentists can still use it (the HP concentration is now 6%)..
Trading standards regulate trading, not professional service. Trading standards will prosecute those who break the rules by providing over 6% HP to the public. It will be interesting to see what happens with the new legislation, which now provides them scope to prosecute non dentists providing whiteneing.
The rules have only recently changed to allow them to prosecute non-dentists providing illegal tooth whitening. The GDC have succesfully prosected illegal tooth whiteing providers recently in landmark cases. They will continue to do so. The GDC has and continues to prosecute those providing dentistry illegally.
Non peroxide tooth whitening is B*****s, a con on the poor schmucks who fork out for an untrained hucksters to stick their dirty hands in their mouths...
People can choose what they want.
If they want cheap horseburgers potentially laden with harmful veterinary drugs, buy it cheap from poorly regulated providers who cut corners.
If they want healthy teeth and mouths they can choose to see a dentist/hygienist who can do the job properly. The alternative, which they can choose, is some unregulated, potentially infectious and definitely illegal con artist.
People can choose, choice is good. Unfortunately there are some unscrupulous people willing to ignore the rules, taking advantage of the public, putting them at risk of infections, allergic reactions, pain etc........
To the public: Be careful what you choose. If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys
you say that i am providing information that people already know. I don't think they do, as they hear lies from illegal tooth whiteners...
You are unable to address the point i made ( about those non-dentists providing illegal tooth whitening, not following adequate cross infection control procedures). you clearly have no knowledge of HTMO105 etc. Any person sticking their hands and chemical into the publics mouths needs to follow these.
Do you have emergency drug kits to treat anyphylactic reactions to these products, and the training to use these? Can you recognise crowns and veneers in the mouth and describe how they may alter the tooth whitening procedure?
I SUSPECT THE ANSWER IS NO......
you said:
'Beauticians carry out many procedures that require hygiene protocols to be carried out. I would hope this was the same for the dentist too.'
This statement is hilarious. there is no beautician in the country forced to follow cross infection control procedures dentist do.
You clearly have no knowledge that ZOOM is not illegal and dentists can still use it (the HP concentration is now 6%)..
Trading standards regulate trading, not professional service. Trading standards will prosecute those who break the rules by providing over 6% HP to the public. It will be interesting to see what happens with the new legislation, which now provides them scope to prosecute non dentists providing whiteneing.
The rules have only recently changed to allow them to prosecute non-dentists providing illegal tooth whitening. The GDC have succesfully prosected illegal tooth whiteing providers recently in landmark cases. They will continue to do so. The GDC has and continues to prosecute those providing dentistry illegally.
Non peroxide tooth whitening is B*****s, a con on the poor schmucks who fork out for an untrained hucksters to stick their dirty hands in their mouths...
People can choose what they want.
If they want cheap horseburgers potentially laden with harmful veterinary drugs, buy it cheap from poorly regulated providers who cut corners.
If they want healthy teeth and mouths they can choose to see a dentist/hygienist who can do the job properly. The alternative, which they can choose, is some unregulated, potentially infectious and definitely illegal con artist.
People can choose, choice is good. Unfortunately there are some unscrupulous people willing to ignore the rules, taking advantage of the public, putting them at risk of infections, allergic reactions, pain etc........
To the public: Be careful what you choose. If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys
den201
I am assuming you are not a dentist as this is the most unprrofessional drivvel I have ever read.
I am glad Zoom has changed. One dentist has stated on his site that Enlighten offered to buy the Zoom systems back until they came up with another product.
So many people have said how nasty their teeth whitening treatment has been at the dentist. Including medical consultants, one was burned so badly she had sensitivity for a year..
The hygiene protocols are not rocket science - do not touch the person, wear non latex gloves. Use sealed products and trays for each client. Check for allergies crowns etc.. Clean lamps with dental grade cleaning materials.
There are good and bad practitioners in all industries including the dental one.
Yes, beware of you dentists overcharging you for you for unecessary treatments and quoting private prices instead of the NHS rate as per the recent news stories and undercover /covert reporting. Not to mention overpriced tooth whitening too.
Not all dentists are the same, many are professional, honest and fair with their patients. This also applies to beauticians/therapists too.
The prosecutions involved harm to the public and peroxide.
I am glad Zoom has changed. One dentist has stated on his site that Enlighten offered to buy the Zoom systems back until they came up with another product.
So many people have said how nasty their teeth whitening treatment has been at the dentist. Including medical consultants, one was burned so badly she had sensitivity for a year..
The hygiene protocols are not rocket science - do not touch the person, wear non latex gloves. Use sealed products and trays for each client. Check for allergies crowns etc.. Clean lamps with dental grade cleaning materials.
There are good and bad practitioners in all industries including the dental one.
Yes, beware of you dentists overcharging you for you for unecessary treatments and quoting private prices instead of the NHS rate as per the recent news stories and undercover /covert reporting. Not to mention overpriced tooth whitening too.
Not all dentists are the same, many are professional, honest and fair with their patients. This also applies to beauticians/therapists too.
The prosecutions involved harm to the public and peroxide.
den201
The prosecution of a dental practice in Hull involved 10% peroxide too.
fiacloir
Den201
My response is totally professional.
'The hygiene procedures aren't rocket science'...really? The department of health, NHS, CQC, GDC and EU seem to think they are important.
What is HTMO105?
Do illegal tooth whiteners know how to wash their hands correctly before clinical procedures? I don't mean 'social' clean, I mean to the levels expected of dentists and hygienists......probably not
How can someone examine a person to check suitability for tooth whitening, without touching them??????
That in itself is a miracle!
Illegal tooth whiteners don't have the equipment or training to deal with medical emergencies such as ingestion/anaphylactic shock etc, etc, etc.....
Your anecdotal 'evidence' isn't clinically or scientifically relevant.
Beauticians/therapists treat 'clients' not 'patients', They are NOT clinicians and have not the training or skillset to deliver quality dental care.
How would an illegal tooth whitener identify a crown/veneer/dental implant in one of your clients mouths???
Often they cannot be identified unless radiographs are taken.
Crowns/veneers will not whiten during the whitening procedure, meaning that they need replacement afterwards if the whitening is done
UK suppliers can only sell whitening products to dentists now, so if non-dentists have products in packages it means NOTHING.
It will have been illegally provided to a non-dentist, by an unscrupulous supplier breaking EU law.......
It's a criminal activity....
The product, if it claims to whiten teeth, is illegal. If it isn't hydrogen/carbamide peroxide, it's not proven to safely whiten teeth
I stand by my comments. The parallels with the processed beef/horse-meat scandal is valid.
The public can choose.
Choose a professional who will do the job properly and legally with insurance/indemnity.
OR
Choose an illegal tooth-whitener in an unclean environment, pedalling illegally acquired or useless chemicals without insurance cover or regulation.
The prosecution of the dentist in hull was for provision of 10% carbamide peroxide, which produces less than 6% hydrogen peroxide, well within the NEW legal limits. his actions would now be totally legal.
Unless you have your teeth whitened by a dental professional (dentist/hygienist/dental therapist) in a CLEAN environment (HTM0105), you risk viral and bacterial infections. You risk chemical burns from unqualified, untrained, uninsured illegal tooth-whiteners.
The good news, is that they lock up criminals in the UK.
see this link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-20327374
If you whiten teeth and you aren't qualified to do so, they are coming for YOU next :-)
My response is totally professional.
'The hygiene procedures aren't rocket science'...really? The department of health, NHS, CQC, GDC and EU seem to think they are important.
What is HTMO105?
Do illegal tooth whiteners know how to wash their hands correctly before clinical procedures? I don't mean 'social' clean, I mean to the levels expected of dentists and hygienists......probably not
How can someone examine a person to check suitability for tooth whitening, without touching them??????
That in itself is a miracle!
Illegal tooth whiteners don't have the equipment or training to deal with medical emergencies such as ingestion/anaphylactic shock etc, etc, etc.....
Your anecdotal 'evidence' isn't clinically or scientifically relevant.
Beauticians/therapists treat 'clients' not 'patients', They are NOT clinicians and have not the training or skillset to deliver quality dental care.
How would an illegal tooth whitener identify a crown/veneer/dental implant in one of your clients mouths???
Often they cannot be identified unless radiographs are taken.
Crowns/veneers will not whiten during the whitening procedure, meaning that they need replacement afterwards if the whitening is done
UK suppliers can only sell whitening products to dentists now, so if non-dentists have products in packages it means NOTHING.
It will have been illegally provided to a non-dentist, by an unscrupulous supplier breaking EU law.......
It's a criminal activity....
The product, if it claims to whiten teeth, is illegal. If it isn't hydrogen/carbamide peroxide, it's not proven to safely whiten teeth
I stand by my comments. The parallels with the processed beef/horse-meat scandal is valid.
The public can choose.
Choose a professional who will do the job properly and legally with insurance/indemnity.
OR
Choose an illegal tooth-whitener in an unclean environment, pedalling illegally acquired or useless chemicals without insurance cover or regulation.
The prosecution of the dentist in hull was for provision of 10% carbamide peroxide, which produces less than 6% hydrogen peroxide, well within the NEW legal limits. his actions would now be totally legal.
Unless you have your teeth whitened by a dental professional (dentist/hygienist/dental therapist) in a CLEAN environment (HTM0105), you risk viral and bacterial infections. You risk chemical burns from unqualified, untrained, uninsured illegal tooth-whiteners.
The good news, is that they lock up criminals in the UK.
see this link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-20327374
If you whiten teeth and you aren't qualified to do so, they are coming for YOU next :-)
den201
Dentists 100 x over the legal HP peroxide limit not carbamide peroxide !
This guy/gal is totally crazy and I will not be returning again!
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/extra/news-item.cfm/newsid/935
As I am not whitening teeth, why should I be interested?
If this is a dentist, please be very scared!! He/she is your worst nightmare!
You are leaving the Twilight Zone now and back to reality!
Be professional as well as honest and fair with your customers, do not heed the rantings of the crazy people.
All the very best to the sane people out there who provide a safe, hygienic and professional service (including dentists) to the members of the public.
What a laugh! :)
This guy/gal is totally crazy and I will not be returning again!
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/extra/news-item.cfm/newsid/935
As I am not whitening teeth, why should I be interested?
If this is a dentist, please be very scared!! He/she is your worst nightmare!
You are leaving the Twilight Zone now and back to reality!
Be professional as well as honest and fair with your customers, do not heed the rantings of the crazy people.
All the very best to the sane people out there who provide a safe, hygienic and professional service (including dentists) to the members of the public.
What a laugh! :)
den201
A final thought!
Why should a non-dentist examine a client when they pay their dentist 2 to 4 times a year £17.50 - £60 per visit to establish if they have gum disease or enamel damage etc. ?
Just another example of the craziness of fiacloir.
Why should a non-dentist examine a client when they pay their dentist 2 to 4 times a year £17.50 - £60 per visit to establish if they have gum disease or enamel damage etc. ?
Just another example of the craziness of fiacloir.
fiacloir
Den201
It's a shame that you have to resort to calling me crazy. Effectively 'trolling' my logical arguments.
Clearly your inability to understand the basic concepts behind the provision of safe tooth whitening means that you cannot provide a convincing case to support your claims that illegal tooth whiteners provide a public service.
You lacked the ability to answer basic questions in the debate and, in the face of public discourse, fall to ugly personal gibes at me. Clearly this means you have lost the debate.
I'm glad to hear you don't practice illegal tooth whitening.
Your lack of understanding of the importance of an examination before provision of a clinical dental procedure clearly means you have yet to have adequate training to provide this service.
I'm quite sure you would be well able to undergo the requires training. There are many uk dental schools looking to recruit keen students who wish to become dentists.
For your safety, if you want your teeth whitened, go to your dentist. They are they only person legally allowed provide this service. They are regulated and insured, unlike illegal tooth whiteners :-)
It's a shame that you have to resort to calling me crazy. Effectively 'trolling' my logical arguments.
Clearly your inability to understand the basic concepts behind the provision of safe tooth whitening means that you cannot provide a convincing case to support your claims that illegal tooth whiteners provide a public service.
You lacked the ability to answer basic questions in the debate and, in the face of public discourse, fall to ugly personal gibes at me. Clearly this means you have lost the debate.
I'm glad to hear you don't practice illegal tooth whitening.
Your lack of understanding of the importance of an examination before provision of a clinical dental procedure clearly means you have yet to have adequate training to provide this service.
I'm quite sure you would be well able to undergo the requires training. There are many uk dental schools looking to recruit keen students who wish to become dentists.
For your safety, if you want your teeth whitened, go to your dentist. They are they only person legally allowed provide this service. They are regulated and insured, unlike illegal tooth whiteners :-)
fiacloir
A classic comment den201
'Why should a non-dentist examine a client when they pay their dentist 2 to 4 times a year £17.50 - £60 per visit to establish if they have gum disease or enamel damage etc. ?'
Because if they do have him disease, Disorders of the tooth structure, allergies etc, then the ONLY person who can assess these is a DENTIST.
In unqualified illegal tooth whitener who would apply the bleaching agent without any knowledge of the persons dental/medical issues will risk that persons health!!!!
Possibly your worst rebuttal yet :-)
Please don't run away from me ;-)
You may actually learn a lot about safe tooth whitening if you are open to hearing the truth.
'Why should a non-dentist examine a client when they pay their dentist 2 to 4 times a year £17.50 - £60 per visit to establish if they have gum disease or enamel damage etc. ?'
Because if they do have him disease, Disorders of the tooth structure, allergies etc, then the ONLY person who can assess these is a DENTIST.
In unqualified illegal tooth whitener who would apply the bleaching agent without any knowledge of the persons dental/medical issues will risk that persons health!!!!
Possibly your worst rebuttal yet :-)
Please don't run away from me ;-)
You may actually learn a lot about safe tooth whitening if you are open to hearing the truth.
den201
I forgot to uncheck the notify box. I have done so this time.
"If you whiten teeth and you aren't qualified to do so, they are coming for YOU next :-)"
I do not think anyone here thinks comments like these are funny or normal, particularly coming from any who claims to be a professional!.
Further, if anyone also claims to be knowledgeable about tooth whitening but does not know the law then they are ignorant and should not comment.
The legislation does not require people to visit a dentist to use 0.1% peroxide as it is considered safe to use unsupervised. If a non dentist is using safe, legal products then no dental training dental or supervision is required either as per the new legislation and EU written confirmation.
If a person is having their teeth checked every 3-6 months they will know if they have gum disease/allergies and they should avoid tooth whitening products. OTC products display a written caution on the packaging too.
Consumers can now buy custom made tooth whitening trays from a leading chemist (was £99) and elsewhere for £20-£30 which are made by dental technicians. I presume the high street chemist has checked the safety of the gel and the service being provided.
Consumers do not need to go to the dentist for beauty treatments, they need to go if they require a check up or medical attention.
A comprehensive safety questionnaire is completed by non-dentists.
A coherent and balanced reply from anon also explains why trading standards and the GDC will not be chasing people trading legally.
If anyone wants to pontificate here, please tell us something interesting, helpful and factually based.
For example:
Anon0101 3 weeks ago
Hi I happened to stumble on this thread by accident. I have read the comments that people have posted. I have been involved in the teeth whitening industry for nearly 10 years. I have used all types of gels and tried every available technique. I’m also fully aware of the legislation and I'm aware of nearly every available teeth whitening product on the market. I'm keeping anonymous because I don't want to accused of advertising on this site.
The current legislation states that only a dentist can supply a whitening product that contains or emits from 0.1% up to a maximum of 6% hydrogen peroxide. Only trading standards can enforce this law and if you are using above these limits then so they should. The separate issue is who can and cannot do teeth whitening. This is enforced by the General Dental Council (GDC) they believe that only a dentist should be doing teeth whitening and will try and prosecute anyone doing the treatment who is not a registered dentist. They can only bring about a prosecution if they have a witness to testify that some kind of damage or harm was caused by the person providing the treatment or if you are providing procedures that a dentist would normally do I.e. Being invasive in the mouth.
High Concentration Peroxide based whitening gels can only be safely applied by
Firstly applying a gum dam to protect the gums
Secondly the peroxide gel must be directly applied onto each tooth by hand
Thirdly the gel should be removed by suctioning it off the teeth using a dental suction system to avoid the gel falling into the mouth where it could cause damage.
You can see that by doing the above you are administering procedures that normally a dentist would do hence why you can again be prosecuted by the GDC for carrying out acts of dentistry.
If you use high concentration peroxide and are not careful there is no doubt that there can be damage to the soft tissue in the mouth and this can lead down the road to be prosecuted by Trading Standards and the GDC.
There have been non peroxide teeth whitening products on the market for a while the earliest types had limited success at providing good results.
We now have newer gels that are offering better results; the two most common types of gel now available are Sodium Perborate based gels and even newer ones containing sodium bicarbonate. I would stress though that its not just about the chemicals in the gel its also about who is supplying the gel to you. There are few legitimate manufacturers of non peroxide whitening gel and a lot of the gels that are on sale are actually rip off copies of original manufacturer formulas. If you purchase from a supplier who can trace their gels back to the point of origin then the gel should contain or emit less than 0.1% hydrogen peroxide and your supplier should be able to supply you with a test report for the gel that you use that specifies that it complies with the Cosmetic Safety Regulations.
Also ask your supplier to put you in touch with previous customers that they have supplied to and get feedback from them. If you are dealing with a reputable supplier the training that they provide should be recognised by insurance companies as long as you are using legal products in order to insure you against any treatment risk. Some insurers will ask that the practitioner have a minimum qualification normally NVQ in beauty therapy.
These non peroxide based gels do not need to be administered the way peroxide gels do as mentioned above. The reason is, because they do not contain high concentrations of peroxide they will not cause adverse effects to the teeth or gums. When it comes to administering a procedure it requires the gel to be applied into a device that holds the gel in place against the teeth which the client puts into their own mouth thus providing a treatment process that requires no physical contact between the provider and the client making the procedure self administered and thus not infringing on the peroxide legislation and also the GDC’S opinions. On top of all that there are other steps in the techniques used in the procedure which must be taken that will ensure you get better results.
"If you whiten teeth and you aren't qualified to do so, they are coming for YOU next :-)"
I do not think anyone here thinks comments like these are funny or normal, particularly coming from any who claims to be a professional!.
Further, if anyone also claims to be knowledgeable about tooth whitening but does not know the law then they are ignorant and should not comment.
The legislation does not require people to visit a dentist to use 0.1% peroxide as it is considered safe to use unsupervised. If a non dentist is using safe, legal products then no dental training dental or supervision is required either as per the new legislation and EU written confirmation.
If a person is having their teeth checked every 3-6 months they will know if they have gum disease/allergies and they should avoid tooth whitening products. OTC products display a written caution on the packaging too.
Consumers can now buy custom made tooth whitening trays from a leading chemist (was £99) and elsewhere for £20-£30 which are made by dental technicians. I presume the high street chemist has checked the safety of the gel and the service being provided.
Consumers do not need to go to the dentist for beauty treatments, they need to go if they require a check up or medical attention.
A comprehensive safety questionnaire is completed by non-dentists.
A coherent and balanced reply from anon also explains why trading standards and the GDC will not be chasing people trading legally.
If anyone wants to pontificate here, please tell us something interesting, helpful and factually based.
For example:
Anon0101 3 weeks ago
Hi I happened to stumble on this thread by accident. I have read the comments that people have posted. I have been involved in the teeth whitening industry for nearly 10 years. I have used all types of gels and tried every available technique. I’m also fully aware of the legislation and I'm aware of nearly every available teeth whitening product on the market. I'm keeping anonymous because I don't want to accused of advertising on this site.
The current legislation states that only a dentist can supply a whitening product that contains or emits from 0.1% up to a maximum of 6% hydrogen peroxide. Only trading standards can enforce this law and if you are using above these limits then so they should. The separate issue is who can and cannot do teeth whitening. This is enforced by the General Dental Council (GDC) they believe that only a dentist should be doing teeth whitening and will try and prosecute anyone doing the treatment who is not a registered dentist. They can only bring about a prosecution if they have a witness to testify that some kind of damage or harm was caused by the person providing the treatment or if you are providing procedures that a dentist would normally do I.e. Being invasive in the mouth.
High Concentration Peroxide based whitening gels can only be safely applied by
Firstly applying a gum dam to protect the gums
Secondly the peroxide gel must be directly applied onto each tooth by hand
Thirdly the gel should be removed by suctioning it off the teeth using a dental suction system to avoid the gel falling into the mouth where it could cause damage.
You can see that by doing the above you are administering procedures that normally a dentist would do hence why you can again be prosecuted by the GDC for carrying out acts of dentistry.
If you use high concentration peroxide and are not careful there is no doubt that there can be damage to the soft tissue in the mouth and this can lead down the road to be prosecuted by Trading Standards and the GDC.
There have been non peroxide teeth whitening products on the market for a while the earliest types had limited success at providing good results.
We now have newer gels that are offering better results; the two most common types of gel now available are Sodium Perborate based gels and even newer ones containing sodium bicarbonate. I would stress though that its not just about the chemicals in the gel its also about who is supplying the gel to you. There are few legitimate manufacturers of non peroxide whitening gel and a lot of the gels that are on sale are actually rip off copies of original manufacturer formulas. If you purchase from a supplier who can trace their gels back to the point of origin then the gel should contain or emit less than 0.1% hydrogen peroxide and your supplier should be able to supply you with a test report for the gel that you use that specifies that it complies with the Cosmetic Safety Regulations.
Also ask your supplier to put you in touch with previous customers that they have supplied to and get feedback from them. If you are dealing with a reputable supplier the training that they provide should be recognised by insurance companies as long as you are using legal products in order to insure you against any treatment risk. Some insurers will ask that the practitioner have a minimum qualification normally NVQ in beauty therapy.
These non peroxide based gels do not need to be administered the way peroxide gels do as mentioned above. The reason is, because they do not contain high concentrations of peroxide they will not cause adverse effects to the teeth or gums. When it comes to administering a procedure it requires the gel to be applied into a device that holds the gel in place against the teeth which the client puts into their own mouth thus providing a treatment process that requires no physical contact between the provider and the client making the procedure self administered and thus not infringing on the peroxide legislation and also the GDC’S opinions. On top of all that there are other steps in the techniques used in the procedure which must be taken that will ensure you get better results.
fiacloir
Den201
I have no problem with people providing less then .1% peroxide........
HOWEVER, it will not whiten teeth.
Can you give me one scientific paper, peer reviewed and recognized by a medical/dental body that shows 0.1% peroxide will whiten teeth? No anecdotes please:-)
Again you insist on lowering the tone of conversation by throwing insults.
I have not once thrown any insult at you.
I am not crazy or trying to be funny.
I wish to protect people from illegal, unsafe and uninsured tooth whiteners using >0.1% peroxide.
The others using less than 0.1% peroxide are merely conning the public as it doesn't work!!!
The quote from anon backs my argument completely.
Trading standards and GDC WILL prosecute illegal tooth whiteners using over 0.1 % peroxide.
Good.
My advise to anyone contemplating paying for less then 0.1% peroxide to whiten their teeth??
You are better off rinsing with Peroxyl mouthwash as it has higher concentrations of peroxide.
It still won't have much of an effect, but at least you won't be giving money to con artists :-)
I have no problem with people providing less then .1% peroxide........
HOWEVER, it will not whiten teeth.
Can you give me one scientific paper, peer reviewed and recognized by a medical/dental body that shows 0.1% peroxide will whiten teeth? No anecdotes please:-)
Again you insist on lowering the tone of conversation by throwing insults.
I have not once thrown any insult at you.
I am not crazy or trying to be funny.
I wish to protect people from illegal, unsafe and uninsured tooth whiteners using >0.1% peroxide.
The others using less than 0.1% peroxide are merely conning the public as it doesn't work!!!
The quote from anon backs my argument completely.
Trading standards and GDC WILL prosecute illegal tooth whiteners using over 0.1 % peroxide.
Good.
My advise to anyone contemplating paying for less then 0.1% peroxide to whiten their teeth??
You are better off rinsing with Peroxyl mouthwash as it has higher concentrations of peroxide.
It still won't have much of an effect, but at least you won't be giving money to con artists :-)
fiacloir
Den201
I have no problem with people providing less then .1% peroxide........
HOWEVER, it will not whiten teeth.
Can you give me one scientific paper, peer reviewed and recognized by a medical/dental body that shows 0.1% peroxide will whiten teeth? No anecdotes please:-)
Again you insist on lowering the tone of conversation by throwing insults.
I have not once thrown any insult at you.
I am not crazy or trying to be funny.
I wish to protect people from illegal, unsafe and uninsured tooth whiteners using >0.1% peroxide.
The others using less than 0.1% peroxide are merely conning the public as it doesn't work!!!
The quote from anon backs my argument completely.
Trading standards and GDC WILL prosecute illegal tooth whiteners using over 0.1 % peroxide.
Good.
My advise to anyone contemplating paying for less then 0.1% peroxide to whiten their teeth??
You are better off rinsing with Peroxyl mouthwash as it has higher concentrations of peroxide.
It still won't have much of an effect, but at least you won't be giving money to con artists :-)
I have no problem with people providing less then .1% peroxide........
HOWEVER, it will not whiten teeth.
Can you give me one scientific paper, peer reviewed and recognized by a medical/dental body that shows 0.1% peroxide will whiten teeth? No anecdotes please:-)
Again you insist on lowering the tone of conversation by throwing insults.
I have not once thrown any insult at you.
I am not crazy or trying to be funny.
I wish to protect people from illegal, unsafe and uninsured tooth whiteners using >0.1% peroxide.
The others using less than 0.1% peroxide are merely conning the public as it doesn't work!!!
The quote from anon backs my argument completely.
Trading standards and GDC WILL prosecute illegal tooth whiteners using over 0.1 % peroxide.
Good.
My advise to anyone contemplating paying for less then 0.1% peroxide to whiten their teeth??
You are better off rinsing with Peroxyl mouthwash as it has higher concentrations of peroxide.
It still won't have much of an effect, but at least you won't be giving money to con artists :-)
fiacloir
Anon0101
Unfortunately non peroxide systems may not be 'illegal', but the are either ineffective or unsafe......
Show me the peer reviewed scientific studies that they work, in a real journal, not a beauty supplement:-)
When the facts change, I change my mind.........what do you do?
Unfortunately non peroxide systems may not be 'illegal', but the are either ineffective or unsafe......
Show me the peer reviewed scientific studies that they work, in a real journal, not a beauty supplement:-)
When the facts change, I change my mind.........what do you do?
fiacloir
for all those who want safe tooth whitening
https://www.facebook.com/StampOutIllegalToothWhitening
https://www.facebook.com/StampOutIllegalToothWhitening
MaryMag123
I am new to all of this and was looking to enter the teeth whitening business.
I have conducted various checks, which I will refer to later.
I am a bit concerned about what has been stated above, my reasons are as follows:
I think any reasonable person would have been offended by what fiacloir stated. I was taken aback by the mocking comments.
I sought legal advice before considering an investment of a reasonable amount of money. I also checked with the EU who confirmed that it is not illegal for a non dentist to deliver teeth whitening using legal products, all of which must hold the relevant PSA certification.
The training offered included the delivery of legal products and equipment. Hygiene and health and safety checks were also covered. Obviously, a non dentist cannot diagnose gum disease etc., and relies on the client providing confirmation of dental check ups and no evidence of bleeding or gum tenderness etc.
Products sold in chemists state: Hazards and Cautions
For adult use only.
This product is not recommended for use by anyone with gum disease, gingivitis, bleeding or severely receding gums, tooth sensitivity, pregnant or nursing mothers.
As with any product a review of the ingredients is recommended to help avoid any allergic reaction.
This product works on natural human teeth only, it will not harm fillings, crowns and caps.
Avoid contact with lips and gums.
Do not use while wearing dental braces.
Do not use continuously, leave at least 4 weeks between uses.
If irritation occurs, discontinue use immediately.
Finally, I have tried the products on myself and I am pleased with the results. I decided not to proceed as I could not see a reasonable profit for someone who does not own a salon/spa.
I have contacted the EU in the meantime, to establish if there is any UK law infringement and I am waiting for a reply. I may consider the business in the future.
At present there seems to be much confusion for dentists and non-dentist alike. This is not healthy for the consumer and it does not occur for other invasive treatments, for example tattooing, semi permanent makeup, electrolysis etc.
Some GP's carry out acupuncture (including mine), which is an invasive treatment, but they do not claim acupuncturists are practicing medicine or delivering unhygienic treatments etc.
No doubt some are, and no doubt some dentists are not perfect either.
I have many businesses and I am constantly looking for new profitable opportunities. Teeth whitening is a booming industry, but it is now tarnished due to the bickering between the beauty industry and the dental one. Hopefully, with time it will resolve itself; this has been the cases in other Eu and non EU countries.
Any businesses that breaks the law, harms or rips off the public deserves to punished. I would not wish to be party to any such industry.
Dentists like any other service provider have been found guilty of fraud and malpractice and should not throw stones at non-dentists who have been guilty too.
Unfortunately, in any billion pound industry there will be sharks out there and I would encourage anyone setting up any business to carry out the necessary due diligence. Shop around, obtain samples, visit trade shows etc., and do the same when you choose a dentist. My last one nearly broke my jaw!.
I have conducted various checks, which I will refer to later.
I am a bit concerned about what has been stated above, my reasons are as follows:
I think any reasonable person would have been offended by what fiacloir stated. I was taken aback by the mocking comments.
I sought legal advice before considering an investment of a reasonable amount of money. I also checked with the EU who confirmed that it is not illegal for a non dentist to deliver teeth whitening using legal products, all of which must hold the relevant PSA certification.
The training offered included the delivery of legal products and equipment. Hygiene and health and safety checks were also covered. Obviously, a non dentist cannot diagnose gum disease etc., and relies on the client providing confirmation of dental check ups and no evidence of bleeding or gum tenderness etc.
Products sold in chemists state: Hazards and Cautions
For adult use only.
This product is not recommended for use by anyone with gum disease, gingivitis, bleeding or severely receding gums, tooth sensitivity, pregnant or nursing mothers.
As with any product a review of the ingredients is recommended to help avoid any allergic reaction.
This product works on natural human teeth only, it will not harm fillings, crowns and caps.
Avoid contact with lips and gums.
Do not use while wearing dental braces.
Do not use continuously, leave at least 4 weeks between uses.
If irritation occurs, discontinue use immediately.
Finally, I have tried the products on myself and I am pleased with the results. I decided not to proceed as I could not see a reasonable profit for someone who does not own a salon/spa.
I have contacted the EU in the meantime, to establish if there is any UK law infringement and I am waiting for a reply. I may consider the business in the future.
At present there seems to be much confusion for dentists and non-dentist alike. This is not healthy for the consumer and it does not occur for other invasive treatments, for example tattooing, semi permanent makeup, electrolysis etc.
Some GP's carry out acupuncture (including mine), which is an invasive treatment, but they do not claim acupuncturists are practicing medicine or delivering unhygienic treatments etc.
No doubt some are, and no doubt some dentists are not perfect either.
I have many businesses and I am constantly looking for new profitable opportunities. Teeth whitening is a booming industry, but it is now tarnished due to the bickering between the beauty industry and the dental one. Hopefully, with time it will resolve itself; this has been the cases in other Eu and non EU countries.
Any businesses that breaks the law, harms or rips off the public deserves to punished. I would not wish to be party to any such industry.
Dentists like any other service provider have been found guilty of fraud and malpractice and should not throw stones at non-dentists who have been guilty too.
Unfortunately, in any billion pound industry there will be sharks out there and I would encourage anyone setting up any business to carry out the necessary due diligence. Shop around, obtain samples, visit trade shows etc., and do the same when you choose a dentist. My last one nearly broke my jaw!.
fiacloir
marymag,
you said "I think any reasonable person would have been offended by what fiacloir stated. I was taken aback by the mocking comments.
I sought legal advice before considering an investment of a reasonable amount of money. I also checked with the EU who confirmed that it is not illegal for a non dentist to deliver teeth whitening using legal products, all of which must hold the relevant PSA certification. "
What specifically did i say that was offensive???
I simply stated the facts.
Those products releasing less than 0.1% peroxide are (although legal) useless at whitening teeth, and anyone other than a dentist supplying greater than 0.1% peroxide to whiten teeth is acting illegally.
I mocked no one in my comments , but have received the vitriol of other contributers who did not like my factual comments. As they could not back up their arguments with logic, they insisted upon calling me crazy etc and slandering my profession with horrible comments about dentists in general. I'm not really fussed by being insulted, it's only words after all. And i won't be bullied
Dentistry is a highly regulated profession with CQC,NHS,GDC as well as all the other trade regulators supervising dentists.
No-one supervises illegal tooth whiteners who buy their kit from illegal suppliers providing them with >.1% HP.
Those people providing 'legal' tooth whitening using <1%HP, will not whiten teeth.
As <01%HP cannot whiten teeth, ergo it cannot damage fillings crowns etc. If it did whiten teeth, then if the whitener had not spotted the crowns/veneers etc, then their customer would be VERY unhappy as they would have to have these renewed, at great expense.
There ARE over the counter products in the US, etc, that DO whiten teeth, but it is illegal to supply them to the public here in the UK. Fact.
If and when the law changes, then this fact will change. It may well be that this happens in the future.
Finally, Acupuncture is a fascinating therapy and has great evidence supporting its use in pain relief and in dentistry.
It is also invasive, and in untrained hands of people who have little medical training, with no/poor cross infection control systems, can lead to the spread of potentially fatal diseases:
see the following articles:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7473428/Acupuncture-spreading-disease.html
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/rx/acupuncture-spread-diseases-without-infection-control-measures/article258201.ece
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/31/unlicensed-acupuncturist-hiv-infections-switzerland_n_1844403.html
personally i would have acupuncture, but only in a clinical environment by someone with some amount of clinical medical training (ie. doctor, dentist, nurse, physiotherapist) not someone who set up on the side of the street or in a hairdressers/beauticians. This is not a slight upon the beauty/hair trades, merely stating the fact that invasive treatments should be carried out in a regulated environment, where the clinicians are trained to proved medical services.
If you want the facts about tooth whitening, go to:
https://www.facebook.com/StampOutIllegalToothWhitening
you said "I think any reasonable person would have been offended by what fiacloir stated. I was taken aback by the mocking comments.
I sought legal advice before considering an investment of a reasonable amount of money. I also checked with the EU who confirmed that it is not illegal for a non dentist to deliver teeth whitening using legal products, all of which must hold the relevant PSA certification. "
What specifically did i say that was offensive???
I simply stated the facts.
Those products releasing less than 0.1% peroxide are (although legal) useless at whitening teeth, and anyone other than a dentist supplying greater than 0.1% peroxide to whiten teeth is acting illegally.
I mocked no one in my comments , but have received the vitriol of other contributers who did not like my factual comments. As they could not back up their arguments with logic, they insisted upon calling me crazy etc and slandering my profession with horrible comments about dentists in general. I'm not really fussed by being insulted, it's only words after all. And i won't be bullied
Dentistry is a highly regulated profession with CQC,NHS,GDC as well as all the other trade regulators supervising dentists.
No-one supervises illegal tooth whiteners who buy their kit from illegal suppliers providing them with >.1% HP.
Those people providing 'legal' tooth whitening using <1%HP, will not whiten teeth.
As <01%HP cannot whiten teeth, ergo it cannot damage fillings crowns etc. If it did whiten teeth, then if the whitener had not spotted the crowns/veneers etc, then their customer would be VERY unhappy as they would have to have these renewed, at great expense.
There ARE over the counter products in the US, etc, that DO whiten teeth, but it is illegal to supply them to the public here in the UK. Fact.
If and when the law changes, then this fact will change. It may well be that this happens in the future.
Finally, Acupuncture is a fascinating therapy and has great evidence supporting its use in pain relief and in dentistry.
It is also invasive, and in untrained hands of people who have little medical training, with no/poor cross infection control systems, can lead to the spread of potentially fatal diseases:
see the following articles:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7473428/Acupuncture-spreading-disease.html
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/rx/acupuncture-spread-diseases-without-infection-control-measures/article258201.ece
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/31/unlicensed-acupuncturist-hiv-infections-switzerland_n_1844403.html
personally i would have acupuncture, but only in a clinical environment by someone with some amount of clinical medical training (ie. doctor, dentist, nurse, physiotherapist) not someone who set up on the side of the street or in a hairdressers/beauticians. This is not a slight upon the beauty/hair trades, merely stating the fact that invasive treatments should be carried out in a regulated environment, where the clinicians are trained to proved medical services.
If you want the facts about tooth whitening, go to:
https://www.facebook.com/StampOutIllegalToothWhitening
MaryMag
Thanks for that. If you are Beverley Carlyle, your reference to a conversation with pigs was rather revealing.
I will leave you/your facebook page members to amuse yourselves here/elsewhere and to continue the one way conversation.
I will wait for the response for my MEP.
"What is it they say about arguing with pigs? Its very similar to the quote on arguing with stupid isn't it? I've been arguing with both lately, well I say argue, what I mean is one sided intelligent discussion on my part and pig ignorance on theirs. Its funny how I don't feel the rage, I'm just proud that I am literate and can speak with reasonable knowledge behind me."
I will leave you/your facebook page members to amuse yourselves here/elsewhere and to continue the one way conversation.
I will wait for the response for my MEP.
"What is it they say about arguing with pigs? Its very similar to the quote on arguing with stupid isn't it? I've been arguing with both lately, well I say argue, what I mean is one sided intelligent discussion on my part and pig ignorance on theirs. Its funny how I don't feel the rage, I'm just proud that I am literate and can speak with reasonable knowledge behind me."
fiacloir
marymag,
I am not beverly carlyle and i have made no derogatory comments about anyone in this forum.
It's a shame that other feel the need to make insulting remarks about me, and are unable to engage in a reasoned debate about the issue.
More interesting than that is that those providing 'training' and supplies to illegal tooth whiteners are so under pressure that they have to change the names of their companies and websites more and more frequently. Unfortunately they don't care about the damage they do to people who use the products, or the poor so and sos they scam out of cash for a 'qualification' that doesn't exist.
Perhaps you might please respond to my previous reply? I would love to hear your thoughts.
specifically.
1. What did i write that was offensive?
2. with regards to your comment about acupuncture: I posted some links on the dangers of unregulated acupuncturists, written by medics in BMJ etc. What did you think of this information? Did i open a new perspective on the possible issues with acupuncture and tooth whitening that you might not have considered?
I look forward to your thoughts.
Regards
I am not beverly carlyle and i have made no derogatory comments about anyone in this forum.
It's a shame that other feel the need to make insulting remarks about me, and are unable to engage in a reasoned debate about the issue.
More interesting than that is that those providing 'training' and supplies to illegal tooth whiteners are so under pressure that they have to change the names of their companies and websites more and more frequently. Unfortunately they don't care about the damage they do to people who use the products, or the poor so and sos they scam out of cash for a 'qualification' that doesn't exist.
Perhaps you might please respond to my previous reply? I would love to hear your thoughts.
specifically.
1. What did i write that was offensive?
2. with regards to your comment about acupuncture: I posted some links on the dangers of unregulated acupuncturists, written by medics in BMJ etc. What did you think of this information? Did i open a new perspective on the possible issues with acupuncture and tooth whitening that you might not have considered?
I look forward to your thoughts.
Regards
fiacloir
Mary Mag,
Apologies, i thought you were the same person as Marymag123.....
Are you, and why 2 accounts?
And why accuse me of being someone else?
Look forward to your thoughts?
:-)
Apologies, i thought you were the same person as Marymag123.....
Are you, and why 2 accounts?
And why accuse me of being someone else?
Look forward to your thoughts?
:-)
MaryMag123
I do not have 2 accounts
I am fully aware now of the GDC's position. The barrister I spoke to was concerned about the harassment of non-dentists who are operating completely legally!
I look forward to a resolution to this very interesting case.
I am fully aware now of the GDC's position. The barrister I spoke to was concerned about the harassment of non-dentists who are operating completely legally!
I look forward to a resolution to this very interesting case.
fiacloir
MaryMag123,
Thanks for the reply. I thought it was MaryMag i posed the question to ;-)
Still unable to answer any of my simple questions?
AFAIK no-one is harassing 'legal' tooth whitener? Who do you think is harrassing these people?
You have previously claimed to be 'new to all of this'.......
Clearly you are heavily involved in tooth whitening, otherwise you wouldn't engage a barrister (Why not a solicitor??? I thought barristers were engaged when going to court?) or contact your MEP, unless you had a lot of money tied up in the business.
If this is the case, then clearly any comments you might make whilst claiming to be a newbie are coloured by that fact that you are involved in tooth whitening and might even be in a court case.
You refer to a resolution to this case?
Which case do you refer to, I'd like to read more about it and see the new regulations upheld.
I'm just looking forward to the GDC and Trading standards going for it against illegal whiteners.
The public will soon realise the those 'legal whiteners' whilst legal, cannot supply greater than 0.1% peroxide and so will not whiten teeth and demand their money back.
Finally.
I would love SOMEONE, ANYONE to actually attempt to answer some of the questions i posed.
All that forum posters have avoided any attempt to debate and indulged instead in feeble 'anti-dentite' comments ;-)
(thanks to Jerry Seinfeld for 'anti-dentite'.............best tv program ever!)
Thanks for the reply. I thought it was MaryMag i posed the question to ;-)
Still unable to answer any of my simple questions?
AFAIK no-one is harassing 'legal' tooth whitener? Who do you think is harrassing these people?
You have previously claimed to be 'new to all of this'.......
Clearly you are heavily involved in tooth whitening, otherwise you wouldn't engage a barrister (Why not a solicitor??? I thought barristers were engaged when going to court?) or contact your MEP, unless you had a lot of money tied up in the business.
If this is the case, then clearly any comments you might make whilst claiming to be a newbie are coloured by that fact that you are involved in tooth whitening and might even be in a court case.
You refer to a resolution to this case?
Which case do you refer to, I'd like to read more about it and see the new regulations upheld.
I'm just looking forward to the GDC and Trading standards going for it against illegal whiteners.
The public will soon realise the those 'legal whiteners' whilst legal, cannot supply greater than 0.1% peroxide and so will not whiten teeth and demand their money back.
Finally.
I would love SOMEONE, ANYONE to actually attempt to answer some of the questions i posed.
All that forum posters have avoided any attempt to debate and indulged instead in feeble 'anti-dentite' comments ;-)
(thanks to Jerry Seinfeld for 'anti-dentite'.............best tv program ever!)
dentist17
Here, here fiacloir!
As a well-experienced dentist who spent 5 long years training at dental school to make me a dental professional, it really offends me that anyone who is not can even contemplate carrying out tooth whitening
Tooth whitening is an act of dentistry; this is because it requires a full and thorough dental examination to determine the suitability of the dentition for whitening. How can anyone without a dental degree give advice to a member of the public (we call them patients) if they cannot do this?
Someone said above 'dentists do not offer refunds' If you were a dentist you would know that any act of dentistry (or any other procedure performed on the human body) is never 100% predictable as the human body is a living changing system, not one person is alike. Therefore we can advise the likely out come but not guarantee. Anyone who absolutely guarantees that tooth whitening will work, obviously has no idea about teeth!
Personally, I have seen several patients who have had tooth whitening carried out illegally (remember it IS an act of dentistry because it involves touching the mouth which is something only to be carried out be dentists according to the Dentist Act 1984) at tanning salons/by beauticians/even (let's forget all considerations to confidentiality !) on display in shopping centres. As a result patients have come to see me complaining of large painful blisters and some of these resulted in permanent scarring to the lips and in one case cheek!
Several of these patients said that the beautician (etc) had touched their mouth/wiped gel from their teeth, in other words PERFORMED DENTISTRY
I really hope the GDC can act more on this, it's not about the money, I actually care about my patients. If a patient does not give informed consent, dentistry can be considered as 'assault to the person' . How can anyone who is NOT a dentist provide enough information to enable the patient to give informed consent?
As a well-experienced dentist who spent 5 long years training at dental school to make me a dental professional, it really offends me that anyone who is not can even contemplate carrying out tooth whitening
Tooth whitening is an act of dentistry; this is because it requires a full and thorough dental examination to determine the suitability of the dentition for whitening. How can anyone without a dental degree give advice to a member of the public (we call them patients) if they cannot do this?
Someone said above 'dentists do not offer refunds' If you were a dentist you would know that any act of dentistry (or any other procedure performed on the human body) is never 100% predictable as the human body is a living changing system, not one person is alike. Therefore we can advise the likely out come but not guarantee. Anyone who absolutely guarantees that tooth whitening will work, obviously has no idea about teeth!
Personally, I have seen several patients who have had tooth whitening carried out illegally (remember it IS an act of dentistry because it involves touching the mouth which is something only to be carried out be dentists according to the Dentist Act 1984) at tanning salons/by beauticians/even (let's forget all considerations to confidentiality !) on display in shopping centres. As a result patients have come to see me complaining of large painful blisters and some of these resulted in permanent scarring to the lips and in one case cheek!
Several of these patients said that the beautician (etc) had touched their mouth/wiped gel from their teeth, in other words PERFORMED DENTISTRY
I really hope the GDC can act more on this, it's not about the money, I actually care about my patients. If a patient does not give informed consent, dentistry can be considered as 'assault to the person' . How can anyone who is NOT a dentist provide enough information to enable the patient to give informed consent?
MaryMag123
I have seen and read legal and appropriate ways for non-dentist to whiten teeth without risk of cross infection or harm and the results are very good too.
Dentist forget they have been illegally whitening teeth for years, but they do not tell their patients, how professionals this? In addition, there are hundreds of dental teeth whitening horror stories and pictures on the net of swollen lips etc. these are as shocking as the ones I have seen on stamp out IW page.
I can see both points of view. Dentists and non-dentists need to be prosecuted if they break the law or harm the public.
I can also report Dentists are having problems too.
Lifted from the UKQCS site:
http://www.ukqcs.co.uk/news/551/15/G...ists-breaches/
Chris Dean said: 'For the first four months of 2012, the figures show that 55% of all concluded dentist conduct hearings involved dentists who created risk for their dental patients by not having liability cover or not co-operating with the formal processes.'
He added: 'The rise in the number of dentists who put their patients at risk is bringing the dental profession into disrepute.'
The GDC admitted in March 2012 that it had no idea how its own registered dentists have breached their professional standards in the last seven years.
Chris added: 'How can the GDC be regarded as an authoritative voice in the monitoring and determination of the quality of dental care in the UK? It is failing in its primary function – that of protecting dental patients.'
The law firm has responded to the regulator's failings by creating an awareness campaign calling for changes in the law.
Dentists who put their patients at risk is bringing the dental profession into disrepute.
Dentist forget they have been illegally whitening teeth for years, but they do not tell their patients, how professionals this? In addition, there are hundreds of dental teeth whitening horror stories and pictures on the net of swollen lips etc. these are as shocking as the ones I have seen on stamp out IW page.
I can see both points of view. Dentists and non-dentists need to be prosecuted if they break the law or harm the public.
I can also report Dentists are having problems too.
Lifted from the UKQCS site:
http://www.ukqcs.co.uk/news/551/15/G...ists-breaches/
Chris Dean said: 'For the first four months of 2012, the figures show that 55% of all concluded dentist conduct hearings involved dentists who created risk for their dental patients by not having liability cover or not co-operating with the formal processes.'
He added: 'The rise in the number of dentists who put their patients at risk is bringing the dental profession into disrepute.'
The GDC admitted in March 2012 that it had no idea how its own registered dentists have breached their professional standards in the last seven years.
Chris added: 'How can the GDC be regarded as an authoritative voice in the monitoring and determination of the quality of dental care in the UK? It is failing in its primary function – that of protecting dental patients.'
The law firm has responded to the regulator's failings by creating an awareness campaign calling for changes in the law.
Dentists who put their patients at risk is bringing the dental profession into disrepute.
MaryMag123
An undercover investigation by Channel 4's Dispatches into NHS Dentistry reveals that some dentists are misleading patients about their rights to NHS treatment.
The three month investigation found that some dentists are maximising their profits by exploiting NHS trusts and over charging patients - ‘gaming' as it is known in the industry.
Dispatches reporter Sam Lister also interviewed dentists that are critical of the complex way in which NHS dentistry is currently funded with calls for a complete overhaul.
Finding an NHS dentist has often been considered a problem for dental patients but Dispatches (tx: Monday 23rd May 2011 at 8pm on Channel 4) has discovered getting the right treatment - at the right price - can be an issue.
Dispatches sent seven members of the public for an NHS check up at dental surgeries that do both NHS and private treatment to see if dentists are sticking to these rules.
On average our undercover patients were in the dentists chair for 15 minutes.
They went in as NHS patients but six out of seven came out having been recommended to have some treatment privately - the most common being hygiene treatment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dentists are rushing examinations and overlooking checks, an undercover investigation has revealed.
Bad practice: Dentists are under fire (Picture: PA)
In a study of 20 practices – ten NHS and ten private – a total of 11 visits were rated ‘poor’ or ‘very poor’ overall.
Five visits lasted less than ten minutes, with two dentists spending just five minutes with their new patients.
And on five visits, X-rays were not offered, which should be standard practice for a new patient, unless there are health or other reasons that preclude it, a spokesman for Which? said.
Checks on the soft tissue in the mouth, important to screen for oral cancers, were reported on only five of the visits.
Just three of the 20 dentists were rated ‘good’ and none ‘excellent’. The average length of the NHS visits was 11 minutes, a timescale that experts said was ‘near impossible’ for an adequate initial visit.
Which? is sharing its audiotaped findings with the dental industry’s two regulators – the General Dental Council and the Care Quality Commission.
‘In an industry that has not one but two regulators, this level of incompetence is unacceptable. Patients could be left with permanent problems that could have been easily avoided,’ said Which? executive director Richard Lloyd.
A Department of Health spokesman said: ‘While this survey covers only a very small number of practices, the findings will be considered by the GDC.’
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dentists overusing expensive veneers 'after diagnosing imaginary condition'
Dental patients are undergoing unnecessary work because dentists 'overuse' expensive crowns and veneers, experts say.
People who undergo such cosmetic treatments are often victims of a 'double mugging', according to Martin Kelleher, consultant in restorative dentistry at King's College London.
'These unfortunate patients are being robbed twice - first of their money and again of their enamel and dentine,' he wrote in the Faculty Dental Journal.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Truth About Your Dentist
As the government's cuts to the NHS start to bite, Sam Lister, The Times' Health Editor, investigates dentistry, going undercover to reveal how some dentists are misleading patients about their rights to NHS treatment.
The programme exposes dentists who are waiting until patients are lying back in the chair before telling them they must pay hundreds of pounds for private treatment, which should be available on the NHS.
Dispatches also reveals that children's teeth are being neglected under the NHS and that cost-cutting dentists are outsourcing lab work to countries like China where there are little or no checks on safety or quality.
Dodgy Dentists Undercover Filming
skynews•2,250 videos
Subscribe20,930
Like
About Share Add to
Uploaded on 20 Jul 2007
Sky News goes undercover to secretly film dentists who recommend unnecessary work. .
The three month investigation found that some dentists are maximising their profits by exploiting NHS trusts and over charging patients - ‘gaming' as it is known in the industry.
Dispatches reporter Sam Lister also interviewed dentists that are critical of the complex way in which NHS dentistry is currently funded with calls for a complete overhaul.
Finding an NHS dentist has often been considered a problem for dental patients but Dispatches (tx: Monday 23rd May 2011 at 8pm on Channel 4) has discovered getting the right treatment - at the right price - can be an issue.
Dispatches sent seven members of the public for an NHS check up at dental surgeries that do both NHS and private treatment to see if dentists are sticking to these rules.
On average our undercover patients were in the dentists chair for 15 minutes.
They went in as NHS patients but six out of seven came out having been recommended to have some treatment privately - the most common being hygiene treatment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dentists are rushing examinations and overlooking checks, an undercover investigation has revealed.
Bad practice: Dentists are under fire (Picture: PA)
In a study of 20 practices – ten NHS and ten private – a total of 11 visits were rated ‘poor’ or ‘very poor’ overall.
Five visits lasted less than ten minutes, with two dentists spending just five minutes with their new patients.
And on five visits, X-rays were not offered, which should be standard practice for a new patient, unless there are health or other reasons that preclude it, a spokesman for Which? said.
Checks on the soft tissue in the mouth, important to screen for oral cancers, were reported on only five of the visits.
Just three of the 20 dentists were rated ‘good’ and none ‘excellent’. The average length of the NHS visits was 11 minutes, a timescale that experts said was ‘near impossible’ for an adequate initial visit.
Which? is sharing its audiotaped findings with the dental industry’s two regulators – the General Dental Council and the Care Quality Commission.
‘In an industry that has not one but two regulators, this level of incompetence is unacceptable. Patients could be left with permanent problems that could have been easily avoided,’ said Which? executive director Richard Lloyd.
A Department of Health spokesman said: ‘While this survey covers only a very small number of practices, the findings will be considered by the GDC.’
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dentists overusing expensive veneers 'after diagnosing imaginary condition'
Dental patients are undergoing unnecessary work because dentists 'overuse' expensive crowns and veneers, experts say.
People who undergo such cosmetic treatments are often victims of a 'double mugging', according to Martin Kelleher, consultant in restorative dentistry at King's College London.
'These unfortunate patients are being robbed twice - first of their money and again of their enamel and dentine,' he wrote in the Faculty Dental Journal.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Truth About Your Dentist
As the government's cuts to the NHS start to bite, Sam Lister, The Times' Health Editor, investigates dentistry, going undercover to reveal how some dentists are misleading patients about their rights to NHS treatment.
The programme exposes dentists who are waiting until patients are lying back in the chair before telling them they must pay hundreds of pounds for private treatment, which should be available on the NHS.
Dispatches also reveals that children's teeth are being neglected under the NHS and that cost-cutting dentists are outsourcing lab work to countries like China where there are little or no checks on safety or quality.
Dodgy Dentists Undercover Filming
skynews•2,250 videos
Subscribe20,930
Like
About Share Add to
Uploaded on 20 Jul 2007
Sky News goes undercover to secretly film dentists who recommend unnecessary work. .
fiacloir
Marymag123,
Again you are unable to answer the questions i posed about tooth whitening and insist on another 'anti dentite' rant ;-)
Whilst the comments you posted have NOTHING to do with tooth whitening, i shall be polite and address them...
------------
you said:
'For the first four months of 2012, the figures show that 55% of all concluded dentist conduct hearings involved dentists who created risk for their dental patients by not having liability cover or not co-operating with the formal processes.'
------------
Dentists in the UK are possibly the most regulated in the world, governed by GDC,CQC,NHS plus all the other commonly known regulatory bodies. Whilst there are failings in the GDC, it is there to protect the public, and the majority of it's council are 'lay' people who are not dentists and will be pretty much searching to look after the public....
it isn't surprising that those that end up in front of the the GDC fitness to practice panel are the ones who fail to maintain registration/insurance cover,or fail to co-operate with the processes, etc as they are likely to be the 'bad apples' in the barrel of the profession. In the same way, one wouldn't be surprises to note that a higher number of motorists with driving convictions will have no insurance, than the overall motorist population, and will be more likely to have had serious car accidents in the past, and also criminal convictions.....
now that dentistry has the CQC to regulate it as well, it is part of the regs that each practice manager should have copies of every clinicians professiona indemnity/insurance certificate. This is checked at EVERY practice inspection. There have been 2500 inspections so far this year alone.
NO-ONE is checking the insurance for illegal non dentist tooth whiteners, because there isn't any!
The fact of the matter is that there is a regulatory body for the profession which can erase errant dentists, and the public can access and complain to the GDC about any concerns they may have about poor dental care.....AFAIK there is no professional governing body for beauticians, set up in uk law, that can regulate beauticians etc, just trading standards and general commercial regulations which apply for every business.
If a dentist is struck off, they lose their career and can NEVER work as a dentist again. If a beautician/hairdresser etc is sued succesfully, they can still set up their business again, albeit under a different company name et. No one can stop them, unless they are locked up in prison or fined harshly enough to put them off. This is why you see the same names in different 'tooth whitening training/supply' firms. They simply change their guise.
As a result, the public are SAFER seeing a dentist/DCP for their tooth whitening as it is regulated and insured.
By comparison, non dentists CANNOT get medical/dental insurance cover and therefore the public cannot be assured that they are covered if something goes awry. Mind you if they use <0.1% peroxide, it isn't going to do anything ;-)
As you said yourself, earlier in the thread, there are dodgy people in every walk of life. However,you pointing out a few cases of 'dodgy dentists' is irrelevent to the question posed at the start of this thread. In the same way, talking about dodgy hairdressers/beauticians is irrelevant and i speak only about 'illegal tooth whiteners'.
I tip my hat to Martin Kelleher, who is a great and entertaining speaker. He is the creator of the term 'veneeriologist' and 'porcelain deficiency disease' and i think of him every day i practice.
The facts:
1. The practice of dentistry by non dentists is ILLEGAL.
2. use of >6% hydrogen peroxide by ANYONE (dentist or non dentist) is ILLEGAL.
3. use of >0.1% and <6% hydrogen peroxide by NON-DENTISTS is ILLEGAL.
4. use of >0.1% and <6% hydrogen peroxide by DENTISTS for patients over 18 years of age is LEGAL.
5. use of <0.1% hydrogen peroxide DOES NOT WORK...... show me the peer reviewed articles in medical/dental journals that say it does!
No one needs insurance to use this as the level is so pitifully low it cannot harm you, unless someone puts their hands in your mouth and doesn't follow
HTM0105 cross infection guidelines
Please note that dentists using >6% HP are illegal whiteners now as well.
The GDC and trading standards can and will prosecute illegal whiteners, and anyone falling into catagories 1,2,3 and 5 are liable to prosecution. Thats a fact.
With the new laws clarified, trading standards can also prosecute non-dentists who practice illegal tooth whitening.
Those non dentists who use <0.1% hydrogen peroxide are wasting their time, as it doesn't work, and are conning the public, who can purchase more powerful agents in the form of Peroxyl mouthwash (2.5% HP) for about £3 at their friendly local chemist ;-)
The companies selling tooth whitening systems to non dentists in the uk are either breaking the law or selling ineffective products (however legal). One might compare them to those companies selling 'legal highs', constantly changing their names in order to stay one step ahead of the law.
I look forward to you replying and answering the questions i posed and staying on the topic of tooth whitening, rather than another personal attack on our profession........
so, can you tell me:
1. Why have you engaged a barrister?
2. What case are you involved in?
3. If you aren't a non-dental tooth whitener (as you claim), why are you spending money on legal fees in this field?
4. how would a non-dentist identify teeth that cannot be whitened, or veneers.crowns etc that would be contra-indications to whitenening?
5. Can you show me peer reviewed evidence from medical/dental journals to show the efficacy of <0.1% peroxide in whitening teeth safely?
it's only 5 questions, quite direct and simple.
Yours in anticipation, but not really expect a response to my RELEVANT queries, if previous posts are to go by.
Some of the contributors on this forum seem unable to give a straight answer to a straight question ;-)
Again you are unable to answer the questions i posed about tooth whitening and insist on another 'anti dentite' rant ;-)
Whilst the comments you posted have NOTHING to do with tooth whitening, i shall be polite and address them...
------------
you said:
'For the first four months of 2012, the figures show that 55% of all concluded dentist conduct hearings involved dentists who created risk for their dental patients by not having liability cover or not co-operating with the formal processes.'
------------
Dentists in the UK are possibly the most regulated in the world, governed by GDC,CQC,NHS plus all the other commonly known regulatory bodies. Whilst there are failings in the GDC, it is there to protect the public, and the majority of it's council are 'lay' people who are not dentists and will be pretty much searching to look after the public....
it isn't surprising that those that end up in front of the the GDC fitness to practice panel are the ones who fail to maintain registration/insurance cover,or fail to co-operate with the processes, etc as they are likely to be the 'bad apples' in the barrel of the profession. In the same way, one wouldn't be surprises to note that a higher number of motorists with driving convictions will have no insurance, than the overall motorist population, and will be more likely to have had serious car accidents in the past, and also criminal convictions.....
now that dentistry has the CQC to regulate it as well, it is part of the regs that each practice manager should have copies of every clinicians professiona indemnity/insurance certificate. This is checked at EVERY practice inspection. There have been 2500 inspections so far this year alone.
NO-ONE is checking the insurance for illegal non dentist tooth whiteners, because there isn't any!
The fact of the matter is that there is a regulatory body for the profession which can erase errant dentists, and the public can access and complain to the GDC about any concerns they may have about poor dental care.....AFAIK there is no professional governing body for beauticians, set up in uk law, that can regulate beauticians etc, just trading standards and general commercial regulations which apply for every business.
If a dentist is struck off, they lose their career and can NEVER work as a dentist again. If a beautician/hairdresser etc is sued succesfully, they can still set up their business again, albeit under a different company name et. No one can stop them, unless they are locked up in prison or fined harshly enough to put them off. This is why you see the same names in different 'tooth whitening training/supply' firms. They simply change their guise.
As a result, the public are SAFER seeing a dentist/DCP for their tooth whitening as it is regulated and insured.
By comparison, non dentists CANNOT get medical/dental insurance cover and therefore the public cannot be assured that they are covered if something goes awry. Mind you if they use <0.1% peroxide, it isn't going to do anything ;-)
As you said yourself, earlier in the thread, there are dodgy people in every walk of life. However,you pointing out a few cases of 'dodgy dentists' is irrelevent to the question posed at the start of this thread. In the same way, talking about dodgy hairdressers/beauticians is irrelevant and i speak only about 'illegal tooth whiteners'.
I tip my hat to Martin Kelleher, who is a great and entertaining speaker. He is the creator of the term 'veneeriologist' and 'porcelain deficiency disease' and i think of him every day i practice.
The facts:
1. The practice of dentistry by non dentists is ILLEGAL.
2. use of >6% hydrogen peroxide by ANYONE (dentist or non dentist) is ILLEGAL.
3. use of >0.1% and <6% hydrogen peroxide by NON-DENTISTS is ILLEGAL.
4. use of >0.1% and <6% hydrogen peroxide by DENTISTS for patients over 18 years of age is LEGAL.
5. use of <0.1% hydrogen peroxide DOES NOT WORK...... show me the peer reviewed articles in medical/dental journals that say it does!
No one needs insurance to use this as the level is so pitifully low it cannot harm you, unless someone puts their hands in your mouth and doesn't follow
HTM0105 cross infection guidelines
Please note that dentists using >6% HP are illegal whiteners now as well.
The GDC and trading standards can and will prosecute illegal whiteners, and anyone falling into catagories 1,2,3 and 5 are liable to prosecution. Thats a fact.
With the new laws clarified, trading standards can also prosecute non-dentists who practice illegal tooth whitening.
Those non dentists who use <0.1% hydrogen peroxide are wasting their time, as it doesn't work, and are conning the public, who can purchase more powerful agents in the form of Peroxyl mouthwash (2.5% HP) for about £3 at their friendly local chemist ;-)
The companies selling tooth whitening systems to non dentists in the uk are either breaking the law or selling ineffective products (however legal). One might compare them to those companies selling 'legal highs', constantly changing their names in order to stay one step ahead of the law.
I look forward to you replying and answering the questions i posed and staying on the topic of tooth whitening, rather than another personal attack on our profession........
so, can you tell me:
1. Why have you engaged a barrister?
2. What case are you involved in?
3. If you aren't a non-dental tooth whitener (as you claim), why are you spending money on legal fees in this field?
4. how would a non-dentist identify teeth that cannot be whitened, or veneers.crowns etc that would be contra-indications to whitenening?
5. Can you show me peer reviewed evidence from medical/dental journals to show the efficacy of <0.1% peroxide in whitening teeth safely?
it's only 5 questions, quite direct and simple.
Yours in anticipation, but not really expect a response to my RELEVANT queries, if previous posts are to go by.
Some of the contributors on this forum seem unable to give a straight answer to a straight question ;-)
MaryMag123
I have not engaged a barrister. I have sought advice from one and have consulted with my MEP and the EU.
Q4. Is irrelevant if you go into a chemist that sells legal teeth whitening products the sales consultant does not need to be able advise on dental health and neither does the pharmacist.
I can confirm myself and others have enjoyed the results of non peroxide products. One friend advised her results were better than her sisters who paid £500 at the dentist for painful peroxide treatment using custom made trays.
I am on trial here?
I thought this was a friendly and informative site, but clearly not.
I am fully aware of legislation
Q4. Is irrelevant if you go into a chemist that sells legal teeth whitening products the sales consultant does not need to be able advise on dental health and neither does the pharmacist.
I can confirm myself and others have enjoyed the results of non peroxide products. One friend advised her results were better than her sisters who paid £500 at the dentist for painful peroxide treatment using custom made trays.
I am on trial here?
I thought this was a friendly and informative site, but clearly not.
I am fully aware of legislation
MaryMag123
Can I ask what is you interest and who are you?
fiacloir
Hi Marymag123,
I am a dentist , my interest is the care of my patients and i am professionally bound to place the care of my patients before all self interest.
My queries as to why you would engage a barrister etc, were to point out that you were not really a 'neutral' in the discussion, as you portrayed yourself. I didn't think a barrister could normally be questioned/engaged by the public directly, but had to be 'solicited', hence my question as to why you would speak to a barrister if you were not engaging them. It's a lot of money to speak with a barrister on a matter which you have no commercial interest.............
You are, of course, correct. No-one is on trial here, and i have been polite at all times :-)
I am trying to answer the original question in a friendly and informative fashion.
Hence the smilies ;-)
question:
'' is teeth whitening illegal for non dentists?''
answer: tooth whitening products using <0.1% ARE legal for non dentists to provide
Catch: tooth whitening products using <0.1% DO NOT SIGNIFICANTLY WHITEN teeth, to the best of my
professional knowledge. The public can buy higher concentrations H2O2 in over the counter
mouthwashes....
The non-dentists on this forum appear to not understand the science behind tooth whitening, and the need for a thorough examination of the patients teeth etc BEFORE this procedure is carried out. The effects of not identifying existing crowns.veneers/implants before whitening can be VERY expensive for the patient to rectify , hence the need to do so BEFOREHAND. If the tooth whitener is using <0.1% peroxide, then it doesn't matter, AS IT DOES NOT WHITEN TEETH. But if using 6%HP, then it is an issue!
If anyone can provide peer reviewed articles from medical/dental journals, to prove <0.1%HP whitens teeth then i am happy to have a read of them. No 'advertorials' from beauty magazines are valid though ;-)
Hope that is helpful :-)
I am a dentist , my interest is the care of my patients and i am professionally bound to place the care of my patients before all self interest.
My queries as to why you would engage a barrister etc, were to point out that you were not really a 'neutral' in the discussion, as you portrayed yourself. I didn't think a barrister could normally be questioned/engaged by the public directly, but had to be 'solicited', hence my question as to why you would speak to a barrister if you were not engaging them. It's a lot of money to speak with a barrister on a matter which you have no commercial interest.............
You are, of course, correct. No-one is on trial here, and i have been polite at all times :-)
I am trying to answer the original question in a friendly and informative fashion.
Hence the smilies ;-)
question:
'' is teeth whitening illegal for non dentists?''
answer: tooth whitening products using <0.1% ARE legal for non dentists to provide
Catch: tooth whitening products using <0.1% DO NOT SIGNIFICANTLY WHITEN teeth, to the best of my
professional knowledge. The public can buy higher concentrations H2O2 in over the counter
mouthwashes....
The non-dentists on this forum appear to not understand the science behind tooth whitening, and the need for a thorough examination of the patients teeth etc BEFORE this procedure is carried out. The effects of not identifying existing crowns.veneers/implants before whitening can be VERY expensive for the patient to rectify , hence the need to do so BEFOREHAND. If the tooth whitener is using <0.1% peroxide, then it doesn't matter, AS IT DOES NOT WHITEN TEETH. But if using 6%HP, then it is an issue!
If anyone can provide peer reviewed articles from medical/dental journals, to prove <0.1%HP whitens teeth then i am happy to have a read of them. No 'advertorials' from beauty magazines are valid though ;-)
Hope that is helpful :-)
MaryMag123
Yes, very helpful thanks.
I can only provide testimony of mine and others results.
Dentists claim 2-8 shades with 25% peroxided with no money back guarantee.
I have taken advice on may subjects.
EU Verification of the Law
Confirmation has been provided in writing from the EU Commission that non-dental professionals are permitted to use products containing or releasing up to 0.1% peroxide without training or qualifications and there are no restrictions as to who can administer the cosmetic teeth whitening treatment. The new legislation also applies to other peroxide products for hair, skin and nails.
In accordance with the provisions of Directive 2011/84/UE, products whitening or bleaching teeth containing 0.1% or less of hydrogen peroxide present or released can be freely placed on the market and can be readily available to consumers. The Directive does not impose restrictions on the training of people who would use these products. Consumers themselves can apply these products, as well as dentists or others.
Non dentists can not give advice about anyone's dental health or prescribe treatment.
If you buy a product from a chemist you are self prescribing and the product has to be deemed safe to use without a dentists supervision.
The Dental Act and the Cosmetic regulations are fairly straightforward.
I can only provide testimony of mine and others results.
Dentists claim 2-8 shades with 25% peroxided with no money back guarantee.
I have taken advice on may subjects.
EU Verification of the Law
Confirmation has been provided in writing from the EU Commission that non-dental professionals are permitted to use products containing or releasing up to 0.1% peroxide without training or qualifications and there are no restrictions as to who can administer the cosmetic teeth whitening treatment. The new legislation also applies to other peroxide products for hair, skin and nails.
In accordance with the provisions of Directive 2011/84/UE, products whitening or bleaching teeth containing 0.1% or less of hydrogen peroxide present or released can be freely placed on the market and can be readily available to consumers. The Directive does not impose restrictions on the training of people who would use these products. Consumers themselves can apply these products, as well as dentists or others.
Non dentists can not give advice about anyone's dental health or prescribe treatment.
If you buy a product from a chemist you are self prescribing and the product has to be deemed safe to use without a dentists supervision.
The Dental Act and the Cosmetic regulations are fairly straightforward.
MaryMag123
Yes, very helpful thanks.
I can only provide testimony of mine and others results.
Dentists claim 2-8 shades with 25% peroxided with no money back guarantee.
I have taken advice on may subjects.
EU Verification of the Law
Confirmation has been provided in writing from the EU Commission that non-dental professionals are permitted to use products containing or releasing up to 0.1% peroxide without training or qualifications and there are no restrictions as to who can administer the cosmetic teeth whitening treatment. The new legislation also applies to other peroxide products for hair, skin and nails.
In accordance with the provisions of Directive 2011/84/UE, products whitening or bleaching teeth containing 0.1% or less of hydrogen peroxide present or released can be freely placed on the market and can be readily available to consumers. The Directive does not impose restrictions on the training of people who would use these products. Consumers themselves can apply these products, as well as dentists or others.
Non dentists can not give advice about anyone's dental health or prescribe treatment.
If you buy a product from a chemist you are self prescribing and the product has to be deemed safe to use without a dentists supervision.
The Dental Act and the Cosmetic regulations are fairly straightforward.
I can only provide testimony of mine and others results.
Dentists claim 2-8 shades with 25% peroxided with no money back guarantee.
I have taken advice on may subjects.
EU Verification of the Law
Confirmation has been provided in writing from the EU Commission that non-dental professionals are permitted to use products containing or releasing up to 0.1% peroxide without training or qualifications and there are no restrictions as to who can administer the cosmetic teeth whitening treatment. The new legislation also applies to other peroxide products for hair, skin and nails.
In accordance with the provisions of Directive 2011/84/UE, products whitening or bleaching teeth containing 0.1% or less of hydrogen peroxide present or released can be freely placed on the market and can be readily available to consumers. The Directive does not impose restrictions on the training of people who would use these products. Consumers themselves can apply these products, as well as dentists or others.
Non dentists can not give advice about anyone's dental health or prescribe treatment.
If you buy a product from a chemist you are self prescribing and the product has to be deemed safe to use without a dentists supervision.
The Dental Act and the Cosmetic regulations are fairly straightforward.
MaryMag123
There seem to be many great reviews for non peroxide treatments for kits costing as little as £5 from the UK chemist.
MaryMag123
There seemw to be many great reviews for non peroxide treatments for kits costing as little as £5 from the UK chemist.
fiacloir
Marymag123,
again, reviews and anecdote are subjective (wishful thinking?) and do not prove anything.....
The reason that <0.1% is legal is because IT DOES NOT WHITEN TEETH. They are safe, because they do nothing...except remove surface stains, which a good toothpaste would do anyway.
You are correct. In this respect the act is straightforward, only dentists can provide a product that ACTUALLY whitens teeth.
Bicabonates remove surface stains (ie, they clean teeth).
Perborate produces HP (which to be effective must be >0.1%HP), therefore is illegal for non dentists to provide.
Chlorine Dioxide is very damaging to teeth.
Phosphoric acid strips enamel if used frequntly.
Show me ONE peer reviewed article in a SCIENTIFIC journal to prove <0.1% whitens teeth. ONE
£5 spent on a non peroxide over the counter kit is £5 wasted.....fact.
Better to give the £5 to charity. I recommend the Mouth Cancer Foundation
again, reviews and anecdote are subjective (wishful thinking?) and do not prove anything.....
The reason that <0.1% is legal is because IT DOES NOT WHITEN TEETH. They are safe, because they do nothing...except remove surface stains, which a good toothpaste would do anyway.
You are correct. In this respect the act is straightforward, only dentists can provide a product that ACTUALLY whitens teeth.
Bicabonates remove surface stains (ie, they clean teeth).
Perborate produces HP (which to be effective must be >0.1%HP), therefore is illegal for non dentists to provide.
Chlorine Dioxide is very damaging to teeth.
Phosphoric acid strips enamel if used frequntly.
Show me ONE peer reviewed article in a SCIENTIFIC journal to prove <0.1% whitens teeth. ONE
£5 spent on a non peroxide over the counter kit is £5 wasted.....fact.
Better to give the £5 to charity. I recommend the Mouth Cancer Foundation
MaryMag123
Very scary! Have you contacted the chemists about this?
Phosphoric acid is also used in well known tooth pastes. Also very scary too!
Phosphoric acid is also used in well known tooth pastes. Also very scary too!
fiacloir
MaryMag123
Scary.......? My intention is not to scare, but to inform :-)
Clearly trace amounts of various chemicals (phosphoric acid, etc,etc) aren't really a problem. Phosphoric acid and bicarbonates are used in cooking etc to enhance flavour and allow chemical reactions to occur which aid cooking processes and preserve food....
However, some of the systems illegal in the UK, but unregulated and touted abroad, DO have high levels of perborate,chlorine dioxide and/or phosphoric acid in them, which CAN damage teeth.
Clearly the occasional use of 'whitening' toothpastes isn't a major issue and is perfectly legal. However, daily use of MANY of these toothpastes can be quite abrasive and over time damaging to teeth. once the enamel is worn through it exposes the darker, yellower dentine and often the patients smile is darker than it was before they began using the toothpastes.
Again, the lack of understanding of these issues by non-dentists who attempt tooth whitening with useless OR illegal systems, means that the public are the ones who lose out by wasting their money or even damaging their smile.
I'm still waiting for some SCIENTIFIC evidence for non peroxide tooth whitening systems. I am very open to hearing new information. However, there has so far been NONE provided by the non dentists on this forum.
don't be scared, be open to scientific evidence :-)
Scary.......? My intention is not to scare, but to inform :-)
Clearly trace amounts of various chemicals (phosphoric acid, etc,etc) aren't really a problem. Phosphoric acid and bicarbonates are used in cooking etc to enhance flavour and allow chemical reactions to occur which aid cooking processes and preserve food....
However, some of the systems illegal in the UK, but unregulated and touted abroad, DO have high levels of perborate,chlorine dioxide and/or phosphoric acid in them, which CAN damage teeth.
Clearly the occasional use of 'whitening' toothpastes isn't a major issue and is perfectly legal. However, daily use of MANY of these toothpastes can be quite abrasive and over time damaging to teeth. once the enamel is worn through it exposes the darker, yellower dentine and often the patients smile is darker than it was before they began using the toothpastes.
Again, the lack of understanding of these issues by non-dentists who attempt tooth whitening with useless OR illegal systems, means that the public are the ones who lose out by wasting their money or even damaging their smile.
I'm still waiting for some SCIENTIFIC evidence for non peroxide tooth whitening systems. I am very open to hearing new information. However, there has so far been NONE provided by the non dentists on this forum.
don't be scared, be open to scientific evidence :-)
MaryMag123
I would suggest you contact the scientific officer for said products. :)
fiacloir
They don't exist :-)
fiacloir
And still no one on this forum can provide scientific evidence that tooth
Whitening systems that use less than 0.1% peroxide can whiten teeth ;-)
Whitening systems that use less than 0.1% peroxide can whiten teeth ;-)
MaryMag123
Is there scientific evidence for any for any teeth whitening products?
For me it works or it doesn't. :)
For me it works or it doesn't. :)
MaryMag123
There is a scientific officer connected to every cosmetic product availiable in the EU.
fiacloir
Marymag.
For you it works or it doesn't
If it is <0.1% peroxide, IT DOESN'T WORK.
No scientific officer on the planet says it does :-)
For you it works or it doesn't
If it is <0.1% peroxide, IT DOESN'T WORK.
No scientific officer on the planet says it does :-)
MaryMag123
But I know it does. :)
fiacloir
How do you know? you cannot prove it scientifically :-)
''Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing not to put a tomato in a fruit salad''
It is clear that the illegal tooth whiteners knowledge is limited and they have not the wisdom to avoid ripping off the public and potentially damaging their teeth......It's a shame that people would do this to others...
''Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing not to put a tomato in a fruit salad''
It is clear that the illegal tooth whiteners knowledge is limited and they have not the wisdom to avoid ripping off the public and potentially damaging their teeth......It's a shame that people would do this to others...
MaryMag123
There is no legislation regarding cosmetic efficacy in the EU. The Danish have submitted a proposal to the EU..
Once again the Dentist proves their ignorance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11554699
I am a mere consumer!
Do dentists offer a money back guarantee if the patient does not attain the tooth whitening result they hoped for or no result at all?
Once again the Dentist proves their ignorance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11554699
I am a mere consumer!
Do dentists offer a money back guarantee if the patient does not attain the tooth whitening result they hoped for or no result at all?
fiacloir
Why am I ignorant??? It is sad when people bandy around personal insults. I don't :-)
The illegal tooth whiteners on this forum are still unable to provide evidence that less than 0.1 peroxide will whiten teeth.....because it won't :-)
Your link has nothing to do with proving that less than 0.1 % peroxide will whiten teeth. From my reading if it it proposes to bring in legislation to ensure that EU scienctific advisors will check and report on the efficacy of cosmetic products in the future. It seems that (according to the article you give the link to) that currently the efficacy of these products isn't checked, just that they are safe to use.
So, in summary, according to your article, cosmetic products are not tested for efficacy, merely safety. So, no scientific officer has stated that less than 0.1% peroxide will whiten teeth, just that it won't harm the public.
Thank you for the link which I wasn't aware of, but has no relevance in proving less than 0.1% peroxide will whiten teeth.
I really look forward to seeing a scientific article showing that <0.1% peroxide works, it would be genuinely fascinating and would revolutionise dentistry :-)
The illegal tooth whiteners on this forum are still unable to provide evidence that less than 0.1 peroxide will whiten teeth.....because it won't :-)
Your link has nothing to do with proving that less than 0.1 % peroxide will whiten teeth. From my reading if it it proposes to bring in legislation to ensure that EU scienctific advisors will check and report on the efficacy of cosmetic products in the future. It seems that (according to the article you give the link to) that currently the efficacy of these products isn't checked, just that they are safe to use.
So, in summary, according to your article, cosmetic products are not tested for efficacy, merely safety. So, no scientific officer has stated that less than 0.1% peroxide will whiten teeth, just that it won't harm the public.
Thank you for the link which I wasn't aware of, but has no relevance in proving less than 0.1% peroxide will whiten teeth.
I really look forward to seeing a scientific article showing that <0.1% peroxide works, it would be genuinely fascinating and would revolutionise dentistry :-)
MaryMag123
In the same way only 55% rated Zoom at 25% HP
If non dentists are providing a money back guarantee for non peroxide when dentists are not providing the same guarantee for 6% peroxide. My question is:
What are the general public to conclude?.
If non dentists are providing a money back guarantee for non peroxide when dentists are not providing the same guarantee for 6% peroxide. My question is:
What are the general public to conclude?.
MaryMag123
Can we assume that the public are lying and the live before and after photos are all fake.
Can we assume the same for the dentists before and after photos too?
Can we assume the same for the dentists before and after photos too?
MaryMag123
Should you trust your dentist?
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/scams-rip-offs/consumer-rights/do-you-trust-your-dentist
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/should-you-trust-your-dentist-6308291.html
http://lolabees.me/2011/11/28/10-reasons-your-dentist-probably-hates-you-too/
http://conversation.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/dentists-nhs-private-dentistry-market-review-oft/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9295340/Dentists-forcing-500000-NHS-patients-to-pay-privately-report.html
And may more!
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/scams-rip-offs/consumer-rights/do-you-trust-your-dentist
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/should-you-trust-your-dentist-6308291.html
http://lolabees.me/2011/11/28/10-reasons-your-dentist-probably-hates-you-too/
http://conversation.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/dentists-nhs-private-dentistry-market-review-oft/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9295340/Dentists-forcing-500000-NHS-patients-to-pay-privately-report.html
And may more!
MaryMag123
Should you trust your dentist?
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/scams-rip-offs/consumer-rights/do-you-trust-your-dentist
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/should-you-trust-your-dentist-6308291.html
http://lolabees.me/2011/11/28/10-reasons-your-dentist-probably-hates-you-too/
http://conversation.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/dentists-nhs-private-dentistry-market-review-oft/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9295340/Dentists-forcing-500000-NHS-patients-to-pay-privately-report.html
Here are some of the dental experiences/reviews that I've read:
http://79.170.43.200/smart-smile.co.uk/gpage5.html
http://www.teethwhiteningreviews.com/search/search.php?query=Swollen+lip&search=1
http://www.rebeccablood.net/archive/...g_caution.html
http://www.womens-health.com/boards/...xperience.html
http://www.teethwhiteningreviews.com/item.php?id=7
http://www.realself.com/review/tortu...y-inhuman-pain
http://www.archwired.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=18729
http://www.precisionclaims.co.uk/services/professional-negligence/dental-negligence/tooth-whitening-injury
http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/zoom-whitening-is-the-pain-worth-it#axzz2PhIzYv3J
And many more!
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/scams-rip-offs/consumer-rights/do-you-trust-your-dentist
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/should-you-trust-your-dentist-6308291.html
http://lolabees.me/2011/11/28/10-reasons-your-dentist-probably-hates-you-too/
http://conversation.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/dentists-nhs-private-dentistry-market-review-oft/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9295340/Dentists-forcing-500000-NHS-patients-to-pay-privately-report.html
Here are some of the dental experiences/reviews that I've read:
http://79.170.43.200/smart-smile.co.uk/gpage5.html
http://www.teethwhiteningreviews.com/search/search.php?query=Swollen+lip&search=1
http://www.rebeccablood.net/archive/...g_caution.html
http://www.womens-health.com/boards/...xperience.html
http://www.teethwhiteningreviews.com/item.php?id=7
http://www.realself.com/review/tortu...y-inhuman-pain
http://www.archwired.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=18729
http://www.precisionclaims.co.uk/services/professional-negligence/dental-negligence/tooth-whitening-injury
http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/zoom-whitening-is-the-pain-worth-it#axzz2PhIzYv3J
And many more!
MaryMag123
Only 2 shades lighter after paying £450 for dental enlighten, which claims no sensitivity!!
http://www.redonline.co.uk/beauty/treatment-reviews/enlighten-teeth-whitening
http://www.redonline.co.uk/beauty/treatment-reviews/enlighten-teeth-whitening
MaryMag123
I am not sure how the dentist can get away with charging £450 for the privilege
of producing little result and with some discomfort.
I am not sure how Dentists can claim superior service/ treatment without scientific evidence of results as well as a comfortable treatment and charge £450 for the privilege!?
of producing little result and with some discomfort.
I am not sure how Dentists can claim superior service/ treatment without scientific evidence of results as well as a comfortable treatment and charge £450 for the privilege!?
MaryMag123
Sorry, scrap above.
Should state:
I am not sure how the dentist can get away with charging £450 for the privilege
of producing little result, with discomfort, despite the .advertising statement that it is sensitivity free treatment! ?
Should state:
I am not sure how the dentist can get away with charging £450 for the privilege
of producing little result, with discomfort, despite the .advertising statement that it is sensitivity free treatment! ?
MaryMag123
Final question.
Why have some dentists switched to non-peroxide after using Zoom?
Why have some dentists switched to non-peroxide after using Zoom?
fiacloir
Marymag,
Your antidentist tirade does nothing to answer the original question posed in this thread.
Not one of your links proves <0.1% peroxide whitens teeth :-)
Which dentists use <0.1 peroxide?
Can you name some gdc registered dentists who do?
No one can truly guarantee whitening will work or the amount of shades improvement.....it is a clinical procedure that varies from person to person.
Fortunately in the last decade I have yet to have a patient whose teeth have not whitened to their satisfaction. Like my dental colleagues, I understand the science and follow the correct protocols but this thread is not about me, despite your attempts at personal digs:-)
Still not one person can give me scientific evidence for <0.1% peroxide actually whitening teeth.
That speaks volumes :-)
The answer to the question of this tread is:
No. There is no legal way in the uk for non dentists to whiten teeth.
Non dentists can legally apply <0.1% peroxide, BUT THIS DOESN'T WHITEN TEETH.
No amount of anti dentist propoganda can detract from these facts.
The public are safer going to a dentist for their tooth whitening because they are well regulated by the gdc CQC nhs and other bodies. Those who see illegal tooth whiteners have no protection. Those who pay for <0.1% peroxide are just wasting their money.
Your antidentist tirade does nothing to answer the original question posed in this thread.
Not one of your links proves <0.1% peroxide whitens teeth :-)
Which dentists use <0.1 peroxide?
Can you name some gdc registered dentists who do?
No one can truly guarantee whitening will work or the amount of shades improvement.....it is a clinical procedure that varies from person to person.
Fortunately in the last decade I have yet to have a patient whose teeth have not whitened to their satisfaction. Like my dental colleagues, I understand the science and follow the correct protocols but this thread is not about me, despite your attempts at personal digs:-)
Still not one person can give me scientific evidence for <0.1% peroxide actually whitening teeth.
That speaks volumes :-)
The answer to the question of this tread is:
No. There is no legal way in the uk for non dentists to whiten teeth.
Non dentists can legally apply <0.1% peroxide, BUT THIS DOESN'T WHITEN TEETH.
No amount of anti dentist propoganda can detract from these facts.
The public are safer going to a dentist for their tooth whitening because they are well regulated by the gdc CQC nhs and other bodies. Those who see illegal tooth whiteners have no protection. Those who pay for <0.1% peroxide are just wasting their money.
fiacloir
In answer to your query , should we assume the public are
Lying and photos are faked.
Assume, makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.
I assume nothing, which is why I ask for scientific peer reviewed evidence, not here say or anecdote.....which is basically most of your links (some if which are currently void....you should check your links before you use them, the Swedish study had nothing to do with whitening, just cosmetic directive proposals!!)
For your safety, as a member I the public with no commercial
Interest in tooth whitening, you should protect yourself by going to good sources of scientifically proven advice about tooth whitening .
One source would be the British dental bleaching society.
http://www.bdbs.co.uk/
Lying and photos are faked.
Assume, makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.
I assume nothing, which is why I ask for scientific peer reviewed evidence, not here say or anecdote.....which is basically most of your links (some if which are currently void....you should check your links before you use them, the Swedish study had nothing to do with whitening, just cosmetic directive proposals!!)
For your safety, as a member I the public with no commercial
Interest in tooth whitening, you should protect yourself by going to good sources of scientifically proven advice about tooth whitening .
One source would be the British dental bleaching society.
http://www.bdbs.co.uk/
fiacloir
Apologies for the poor layout of the last posting.,
It's difficult to post on this forum from an iPhone :-(
It's difficult to post on this forum from an iPhone :-(
fiacloir
FYI marymag
The link that didn't work is
http://www.realself.com/review/tortu...y-inhuman-pain
But I'm guessing it wasn't a relevant scientific article ;-)
The link that didn't work is
http://www.realself.com/review/tortu...y-inhuman-pain
But I'm guessing it wasn't a relevant scientific article ;-)
MaryMag123
I can find no scientific report for any teeth whitening products. The expensive dental products provide no guarantees. The Non -dentists products provide a guarantee.
It is very confusing for the public.
I love my dentist, but clearly many people feel differently.
I just like the medical profession to be honest and fair.
It is very confusing for the public.
I love my dentist, but clearly many people feel differently.
I just like the medical profession to be honest and fair.
Jac100
Interesting radio broadcast on the BBC Radio 4 the other day.
Dr Linda Greenwall provided inaccurate advice to the public, which is very worrying. ;(
Dr Linda Greenwall provided inaccurate advice to the public, which is very worrying. ;(
Jac100
It is also interesting to note after 5 months since my lat post nothing has changed on this site.
Dentist challenging non-dentist. and vice versa.
Ineffective products etc. etc.......
Dentist challenging non-dentist. and vice versa.
Ineffective products etc. etc.......
illegalwhitening
nice to see that people are stalking my personal facebook page haha. If you want an official statement from me, you only have to ask, you don't have to stalk me and presume status updates apply to illegal tooth whitening people. Anything I have to say about illegal whitening is said in public, I don't need to resort to passive aggressive statements on my personal page about you all: MaryMag 1 month ago
Thanks for that. If you are Beverley Carlyle, your reference to a conversation with pigs was rather revealing.
I will leave you/your facebook page members to amuse yourselves here/elsewhere and to continue the one way conversation.
I will wait for the response for my MEP.
"What is it they say about arguing with pigs? Its very similar to the quote on arguing with stupid isn't it? I've been arguing with both lately, well I say argue, what I mean is one sided intelligent discussion on my part and pig ignorance on theirs. Its funny how I don't feel the rage, I'm just proud that I am literate and can speak with reasonable knowledge behind me."
Thanks for that. If you are Beverley Carlyle, your reference to a conversation with pigs was rather revealing.
I will leave you/your facebook page members to amuse yourselves here/elsewhere and to continue the one way conversation.
I will wait for the response for my MEP.
"What is it they say about arguing with pigs? Its very similar to the quote on arguing with stupid isn't it? I've been arguing with both lately, well I say argue, what I mean is one sided intelligent discussion on my part and pig ignorance on theirs. Its funny how I don't feel the rage, I'm just proud that I am literate and can speak with reasonable knowledge behind me."
illegalwhitening
nice to see that people are stalking my personal facebook page haha. If you want an official statement from me, you only have to ask, you don't have to stalk me and presume status updates apply to illegal tooth whitening people. Anything I have to say about illegal whitening is said in public, I don't need to resort to passive aggressive statements on my personal page about you all: MaryMag 1 month ago
Thanks for that. If you are Beverley Carlyle, your reference to a conversation with pigs was rather revealing.
I will leave you/your facebook page members to amuse yourselves here/elsewhere and to continue the one way conversation.
I will wait for the response for my MEP.
"What is it they say about arguing with pigs? Its very similar to the quote on arguing with stupid isn't it? I've been arguing with both lately, well I say argue, what I mean is one sided intelligent discussion on my part and pig ignorance on theirs. Its funny how I don't feel the rage, I'm just proud that I am literate and can speak with reasonable knowledge behind me."
Thanks for that. If you are Beverley Carlyle, your reference to a conversation with pigs was rather revealing.
I will leave you/your facebook page members to amuse yourselves here/elsewhere and to continue the one way conversation.
I will wait for the response for my MEP.
"What is it they say about arguing with pigs? Its very similar to the quote on arguing with stupid isn't it? I've been arguing with both lately, well I say argue, what I mean is one sided intelligent discussion on my part and pig ignorance on theirs. Its funny how I don't feel the rage, I'm just proud that I am literate and can speak with reasonable knowledge behind me."
fiacloir
Marymag,
I was sorry to hear you couldn't find any evidence to provemtoothnwhitening works...
Here's a scientific, peer reviewd article, with many, many references to other articles which will give you all the evidence you might need to enlighten to to the truth that tooth whitening works (if you use the correct concentration of peroxide!!!)
http://www.ineedce.com/courses/1698/PDF/TheScienceandArtWhitening.pdf
I can post more if you like, or you could try using a search engine such as 'google' ;-)
Try as I might I have yet to find ANY scientific evidence that <0.1 peroxide bleaches teeth and makes them whiter.....p
I would still be interested in reading any such articles.
Jac100
What did Linda green wall say that was inaccurate?
The pearly whites representative said that there was sodium perborate in their product......this breaks down to produce peroxide, she didn't say what percentage.
It was my understanding that the new legislation outlawed the use of perforate for dentists and on dentists alike......I might well be wrong, can anyone confirm this, please?
I'm looking forward to some scientifically backed evidence :-)
I was sorry to hear you couldn't find any evidence to provemtoothnwhitening works...
Here's a scientific, peer reviewd article, with many, many references to other articles which will give you all the evidence you might need to enlighten to to the truth that tooth whitening works (if you use the correct concentration of peroxide!!!)
http://www.ineedce.com/courses/1698/PDF/TheScienceandArtWhitening.pdf
I can post more if you like, or you could try using a search engine such as 'google' ;-)
Try as I might I have yet to find ANY scientific evidence that <0.1 peroxide bleaches teeth and makes them whiter.....p
I would still be interested in reading any such articles.
Jac100
What did Linda green wall say that was inaccurate?
The pearly whites representative said that there was sodium perborate in their product......this breaks down to produce peroxide, she didn't say what percentage.
It was my understanding that the new legislation outlawed the use of perforate for dentists and on dentists alike......I might well be wrong, can anyone confirm this, please?
I'm looking forward to some scientifically backed evidence :-)
fiacloir
Apologies for the poor spelling etc on my last post. It's difficult to submit to this forum using an iPhone as the editor is tiny and hard to use.....
Hamsterlegs
If a dentist is challenging the effects of non peroxide tooth whitening as illegal or that it does not work should perhaps refer to his/her medical training as I have and fully understand that scientific ethos as to it working or not working. There is only one reason why dentists are misinforming the public and it is purely based on profit. Perhaps they should try practising proper dental care as to the standards they were trained and perhaps then they may have fewer complaints regarding their practice. Read the house of lords legislation as this is becoming tedious and boring. Teeth whitening or stain relieving products are legal as outlined by the house of lords FACT. Perhaps dentists should challenge the house of lords ruling if they feel so strongly about other professionals carrying out COSMETIC TEETH WHITENING NOT DENTISTRY. Lets face it its all about loosing carte blanche to charge what you like for a similar treatment. I doubt dentists are sticking to the 6% legal limit imposed on them. The site is becoming a forum for verbal slanging matches between disgruntled dentists and teeth whitening technicians. We all know where the law stands so if you are using the products that you are allowed to use there is no issue. The dentist moaning on this site about the lack of scientific evidence should put him/herself on a refresher course if something as simple as that is missing from their academic remit. If he/she feels so strongly that there is no scientific evidence perhaps he/she should undertake their own research to satisfy their lack of knowledge or understanding of the products that they are using on patients to whiten their teeth. Sodium perborate is used in dentistry so I find it quite disturbing that a dentist would have no scientific understanding of how it works?
fiacloir
Hamsterlegs
I am not saying that the use of <0.1% peroxide products by non dentist on the public is illegal.........i state the fact that it doesn't work.
Your argument is that i should prove that <0.1% peroxide whitens teeth is fallacious.
IT DOESN"T WORK. Which is why you can find no articles to prove it :-)
If you could find them, you would have posted them.......why wouldn't you???
I have given links to scientific articles about the basis for tooth whitening with peroxide products >0.1% peroxide.
i have supported my side of this debate. Not much of a debate though if the other side cannot bring any evidence to the table.....
you suggest that i should ''perhaps refer to his/her medical training as I have..'' .... i have. you infer that you have medical training.....what sort?
If you are medically trained then show me a single peer reviewed published scientific article that proves <0.1% peroxide will bleach teeth....JUST ONE ;-)
I will gladly then accept your claim that i am wrong, if you show me the evidence......but to date, not a single person on this thread can answer this SIMPLE question. Not one. Why is that? Perhaps the illegal whiteners aren't intelligent enough to be able to find this information, OR, it doesn't exist....
You are correct that legislation allows the sale of products <0.1% peroxide freely over the counter.
PEROXYL mouthwash has >0.1% peroxide content. People would have more results with this than the <0.1% rubbish sold by non dentists in the uk claiming to whiten teeth. The EU legal position is NOT that these products will whiten teeth, just that they are safe to use and won't harm the public. This is the same as some anti-wrinkle creams which have safe to use, but have little or no effect......
I am quite well versed in tooth whitening, having done this procedure for at least 10 years and attending refresher courses regularly. I will be at the BDA conference this week for more SCIENTIFIC education :-)
Sodium Perborate has been used in dentistry, commonly for internal bleaching of non-vital discoloured teeth.
It works by breaking down to release Hydrogen Peroxide, thereby bleaching the teeth in the same way as outlined in the previous scientific article i gave a link for:
http://www.ineedce.com/courses/1698/PDF/TheScienceandArtWhitening.pdf. It has been used as it is a bit easier to handle and control than the 'walking bleach' technique and those suggested by Martin Kelleher et al.........All you non dentist tooth whiteners out there will,no doubt, be very familiar with these techniques :-)
My point in my previous post was that it's my understanding that sodium perborate has now been made illegal for dentists AND non-dentists to use in tooth whitening.
I could easily be wrong on this one, but would be delighted if it wasn't so, as i could then use it for internal bleaching again...
I am delighted to reassure you that i have a good understanding of the science of the subject of tooth whitening and hope that your disturbance eases in this knowledge :-)
Come on folks, bring it on!
PLEASE GIVE ME ONE IOTA OF SCIENTIFIC PEER REVIEWED EVIDENCE FOR THE CLAIM THAT <0.1% peroxide whitens teeth.
In the meantime, my hygienist colleagues and i shall continue to help our patients in whitening their smiles (legally, safely and with full insurance cover , in a clean, safe and fully regulated clinical environment) using up to 6%HP. Actually we use 10% carbamide peroxide, so the HP released is a bit less that 6%.
Hope that's useful folks
Don't listen to the anti-dentist jibes made by people on this forum. Ask your friendly dentist or hygienist how they can give you a whiter smile, in a safe, regulated, insured environment :-)
I am not saying that the use of <0.1% peroxide products by non dentist on the public is illegal.........i state the fact that it doesn't work.
Your argument is that i should prove that <0.1% peroxide whitens teeth is fallacious.
IT DOESN"T WORK. Which is why you can find no articles to prove it :-)
If you could find them, you would have posted them.......why wouldn't you???
I have given links to scientific articles about the basis for tooth whitening with peroxide products >0.1% peroxide.
i have supported my side of this debate. Not much of a debate though if the other side cannot bring any evidence to the table.....
you suggest that i should ''perhaps refer to his/her medical training as I have..'' .... i have. you infer that you have medical training.....what sort?
If you are medically trained then show me a single peer reviewed published scientific article that proves <0.1% peroxide will bleach teeth....JUST ONE ;-)
I will gladly then accept your claim that i am wrong, if you show me the evidence......but to date, not a single person on this thread can answer this SIMPLE question. Not one. Why is that? Perhaps the illegal whiteners aren't intelligent enough to be able to find this information, OR, it doesn't exist....
You are correct that legislation allows the sale of products <0.1% peroxide freely over the counter.
PEROXYL mouthwash has >0.1% peroxide content. People would have more results with this than the <0.1% rubbish sold by non dentists in the uk claiming to whiten teeth. The EU legal position is NOT that these products will whiten teeth, just that they are safe to use and won't harm the public. This is the same as some anti-wrinkle creams which have safe to use, but have little or no effect......
I am quite well versed in tooth whitening, having done this procedure for at least 10 years and attending refresher courses regularly. I will be at the BDA conference this week for more SCIENTIFIC education :-)
Sodium Perborate has been used in dentistry, commonly for internal bleaching of non-vital discoloured teeth.
It works by breaking down to release Hydrogen Peroxide, thereby bleaching the teeth in the same way as outlined in the previous scientific article i gave a link for:
http://www.ineedce.com/courses/1698/PDF/TheScienceandArtWhitening.pdf. It has been used as it is a bit easier to handle and control than the 'walking bleach' technique and those suggested by Martin Kelleher et al.........All you non dentist tooth whiteners out there will,no doubt, be very familiar with these techniques :-)
My point in my previous post was that it's my understanding that sodium perborate has now been made illegal for dentists AND non-dentists to use in tooth whitening.
I could easily be wrong on this one, but would be delighted if it wasn't so, as i could then use it for internal bleaching again...
I am delighted to reassure you that i have a good understanding of the science of the subject of tooth whitening and hope that your disturbance eases in this knowledge :-)
Come on folks, bring it on!
PLEASE GIVE ME ONE IOTA OF SCIENTIFIC PEER REVIEWED EVIDENCE FOR THE CLAIM THAT <0.1% peroxide whitens teeth.
In the meantime, my hygienist colleagues and i shall continue to help our patients in whitening their smiles (legally, safely and with full insurance cover , in a clean, safe and fully regulated clinical environment) using up to 6%HP. Actually we use 10% carbamide peroxide, so the HP released is a bit less that 6%.
Hope that's useful folks
Don't listen to the anti-dentist jibes made by people on this forum. Ask your friendly dentist or hygienist how they can give you a whiter smile, in a safe, regulated, insured environment :-)
fiacloir
No answer?
Surprise , Surprise ;-)
Surprise , Surprise ;-)
MaryMag123
Research dentists who use the non peroxide products as well as perborate 0.15% as well as dental surgeons who endorse non peroxide products.
fiacloir
there are no dentists using them... give us a link
what dentists endorse non peroxide products for tooth whitening? give us a link!
check out the websites of people who know how to whiten teeth safely and legally:
http://www.bdbs.co.uk
If it isn't a peroxide >0.1HP then there is no scientific evidence to prove it will whiten teeth :-)
dentists use 6% HP because it works.
don't waste your time and money, or risk damaging your smile by going to a high street cowboy (who doesn't have any scientific evidence or real training) for your tooth whitening. Go to your friendly dental professional :-)
what dentists endorse non peroxide products for tooth whitening? give us a link!
check out the websites of people who know how to whiten teeth safely and legally:
http://www.bdbs.co.uk
If it isn't a peroxide >0.1HP then there is no scientific evidence to prove it will whiten teeth :-)
dentists use 6% HP because it works.
don't waste your time and money, or risk damaging your smile by going to a high street cowboy (who doesn't have any scientific evidence or real training) for your tooth whitening. Go to your friendly dental professional :-)
neill
Fact: 23/05/13 High court deems tooth whitening is the practice of Dentistry and will bring criminal convictions to anyone not on the General Dental Council register.
fiacloir
Yes Neil,
Good news that hopefully the public may get some protection from illegal tooth whiteners.
However, the person convicted of this crime still advertises on this site!!!!
Come on wahanda! Remove the convicted illegal tooth whitener :-)
Good news that hopefully the public may get some protection from illegal tooth whiteners.
However, the person convicted of this crime still advertises on this site!!!!
Come on wahanda! Remove the convicted illegal tooth whitener :-)
Perfectwhites
Lorna Jamous was prosecuted in the Magistrates court (by the GDC) December 2012, she was found NOT GUILTY. The GDC appealed this decision and the judge allowed the appeal. This matter is now pending an application to appeal to the Supreme court. This is why the GDC have not published this on their website and why it has not yet had any press coverage and why Ms Jamous has not been sentenced. Ms Jamous has never used above 0.1% hp therefore she was not performing a treatment which is usually performed by dentists .All her customers on this site have been very happy with the treatment they received. As this matter is not yet over and has a lot of public and media interest, I would again urge Beverely Carlyle to keep her mouth tightly shut about this case as she could very easily find herself in trouble. I have not yet been convicted and no sentence has been passed so stop slandering my good name. If anyone has any information regarding this woman or any other person who is slandering my name then please contact me. ljamous@yahoo.com, Lastly I would like to take this opportunity to thank all my satisfied customers for their kind words in their reviews.
Thank you all very much.x Lorna Jamous (fighter for justice)
Thank you all very much.x Lorna Jamous (fighter for justice)
fiacloir
Latest gdc posting on its website about illegal tooth whiteners.
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Tooth-whitening-is-dentistry,-High-Court-confirms.aspx
Other recent website and press postings
http://www.dentistry.co.uk/news/high-court-confirms-whitening-law
http://www.healthcare-learning.com/news/item/tooth-whitening-is-dentistry%20-high-court-confirms#.UaDyQii9Kc0
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Tooth-whitening-is-dentistry,-High-Court-confirms.aspx
Other recent website and press postings
http://www.dentistry.co.uk/news/high-court-confirms-whitening-law
http://www.healthcare-learning.com/news/item/tooth-whitening-is-dentistry%20-high-court-confirms#.UaDyQii9Kc0
FreeSpeech
I love the way Fiacloir who is probably in cohorts with the General Dental Council or is actually another money grabbing dentist likes to rip on decent people.
Firstly as stated by Perfects Whites, this went to the magistrates court and the person was found not guilty as the level of chemical is within the legal limits.
The judge quite clearly doesn’t understand the implications of this situation and it is kind of very strange how the GDC pick on a mother trying to make ends meet.
But the rich can get away with and have been doing so for a number of years. I suppose if your married to a Barrister then you would never get prosecuted as the GDC can only pick on the poor in society.
I would like to point out something further the General Dental Council on its website on the link you provided actually breaches the Data Protection Act 1998. Oh and that is an offence.
So why don’t we all start making complaints about offences that everyone else can complain about.
Lets also change the law and say that a car can only be fixed by a licensed and approved mechanic. Cars kill people when there brakes fail however a bit of cosmetic teeth whitening doesn’t so Fiacloir if you want me to start posting links about the things that are totally wrong I will, I guarantee you I could embarrass and get most dentists in the country into an offence in about 20 seconds.
Firstly as stated by Perfects Whites, this went to the magistrates court and the person was found not guilty as the level of chemical is within the legal limits.
The judge quite clearly doesn’t understand the implications of this situation and it is kind of very strange how the GDC pick on a mother trying to make ends meet.
But the rich can get away with and have been doing so for a number of years. I suppose if your married to a Barrister then you would never get prosecuted as the GDC can only pick on the poor in society.
I would like to point out something further the General Dental Council on its website on the link you provided actually breaches the Data Protection Act 1998. Oh and that is an offence.
So why don’t we all start making complaints about offences that everyone else can complain about.
Lets also change the law and say that a car can only be fixed by a licensed and approved mechanic. Cars kill people when there brakes fail however a bit of cosmetic teeth whitening doesn’t so Fiacloir if you want me to start posting links about the things that are totally wrong I will, I guarantee you I could embarrass and get most dentists in the country into an offence in about 20 seconds.
fiacloir
It's a shame that people on this forum persist in slagging off dentists and are unable I answer the sole questions asked.
Still NOBODY has provided evidence that less than 0.1% peroxide works or that non peroxide whitening is safe and works.
The links provided are in the public domain with reputable bodies/publishers. If you have a problem with them, go to them.
I am sure that the illegal whiteners in the uk are All lovely people. However, they and the public deserve to hear about the ongoing legal debate.
I am not a judge. I simply pass on the publically available information.
Please do feel free to post any links to scientific information backing up the claims that non peroxide works safely or <0.1% peroxide works.
Still NOBODY has provided evidence that less than 0.1% peroxide works or that non peroxide whitening is safe and works.
The links provided are in the public domain with reputable bodies/publishers. If you have a problem with them, go to them.
I am sure that the illegal whiteners in the uk are All lovely people. However, they and the public deserve to hear about the ongoing legal debate.
I am not a judge. I simply pass on the publically available information.
Please do feel free to post any links to scientific information backing up the claims that non peroxide works safely or <0.1% peroxide works.
Perfectwhites
My satisfied customers on this site and other teeth whitening companies around the UK, their customers are living proof that sodium perborate which contains no higher than 0.1% actually works! Dentist just wants the monopoly. Its not over yet so I wont continue with this debate, just be very careful!
FreeSpeech
No Fiacloir you’re a dentist as I suggested, Let me pass on some publications for you.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jan/09/children-tooth-decay-dentist-monty-duggal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-19064575
http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/norfolk_dentist_convicted_of_cheating_the_nhs_1_1452626
The issue here is about going into someone’s mouth. So is the Hygienist a qualified dentist? The answer is no.
Anyway let’s have a look at some of the issues within your industry as money grabbing dentists are really just out for themselves and the evidence to back up my claims.
The lady from perfect whites did my teeth whitening for a realistic price, I put the thing in my mouth not her, a dentist wanted £500 to whiten my teeth I got it done for £90.
The same dentist who quoted £500 did a route canal for me and left me in excruciating pain costing me two days off work, four trips back after the screw up and a bill for £1,100.
That’s the dentistry industry and can you get compensation through the GDC for this? The answer is no.
I think to be honest you are out of order I was in the court that day and the judge even stated he didn’t know if it was dentistry or not. As this matter will be going in front of the Supreme Court I think it is totally inappropriate that the GDC and people like you want to post it everywhere. The law is totally unclear, and I think you will find that the GDC will lose in the Supreme Court as they did in the Magistrates court.
I think you should be on my website and we will open a debate about dentistry in the UK and see how people agree with you and how many people agree with me, are you up for a friendly challenge, or would you prefer to carry on slating a perfectly decent person?
If you want more links tow what dentists have done wrong I can post them all as I have a list of about 1000
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jan/09/children-tooth-decay-dentist-monty-duggal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-19064575
http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/norfolk_dentist_convicted_of_cheating_the_nhs_1_1452626
The issue here is about going into someone’s mouth. So is the Hygienist a qualified dentist? The answer is no.
Anyway let’s have a look at some of the issues within your industry as money grabbing dentists are really just out for themselves and the evidence to back up my claims.
The lady from perfect whites did my teeth whitening for a realistic price, I put the thing in my mouth not her, a dentist wanted £500 to whiten my teeth I got it done for £90.
The same dentist who quoted £500 did a route canal for me and left me in excruciating pain costing me two days off work, four trips back after the screw up and a bill for £1,100.
That’s the dentistry industry and can you get compensation through the GDC for this? The answer is no.
I think to be honest you are out of order I was in the court that day and the judge even stated he didn’t know if it was dentistry or not. As this matter will be going in front of the Supreme Court I think it is totally inappropriate that the GDC and people like you want to post it everywhere. The law is totally unclear, and I think you will find that the GDC will lose in the Supreme Court as they did in the Magistrates court.
I think you should be on my website and we will open a debate about dentistry in the UK and see how people agree with you and how many people agree with me, are you up for a friendly challenge, or would you prefer to carry on slating a perfectly decent person?
If you want more links tow what dentists have done wrong I can post them all as I have a list of about 1000
fiacloir
Again NOBODY can give evidence to support the claim that <0.1 peroxide whitens teeth.
The evidence does not exist.
No number of 'reviews' or anecdotal evidence proves that which doesn't work.
Simples
The evidence does not exist.
No number of 'reviews' or anecdotal evidence proves that which doesn't work.
Simples
FreeSpeech
Do you want some more links about bad dentists?
By the way after my session with the dentist the route canal fell out when eating a sandwich, I would sooner pull my own teeth with pliers than let a dentist anywhere near my mouth.
By the way after my session with the dentist the route canal fell out when eating a sandwich, I would sooner pull my own teeth with pliers than let a dentist anywhere near my mouth.
fiacloir
Before anyone lets a non clinician put sodium perborate on their mouth, they should read about this chemical.
http://www.icca-chem.org/Portal/SafetySummarySheets/634600737495685676_PSS%20Sodium%20perborate%20(PBS)%20monohydrate%20-%20V01.pdf
http://www.icca-chem.org/Portal/SafetySummarySheets/634600737495685676_PSS%20Sodium%20perborate%20(PBS)%20monohydrate%20-%20V01.pdf
FreeSpeech
Before anyone lets a dentist near there mouth they should read this.
http://www.neil-hudgell.co.uk/news-media/company-news/over-5000-compensation-for-dental-patient-injured-because-of-her-slippery-l
http://www.neil-hudgell.co.uk/news-media/company-news/over-5000-compensation-for-dental-patient-injured-because-of-her-slippery-l
fiacloir
That last post has nothing to do with tooth whitening.
Is everyone still afraid/unable to give a coherent answer to the questions posed?
I think so ;-)
Is everyone still afraid/unable to give a coherent answer to the questions posed?
I think so ;-)
FreeSpeech
Roseneath Dental Surgery in Surrey I take it? mate no one wants to answer questions as you don't answer theres?
Perfectwhites
where is your evidence to support your claim?
fiacloir
Hilarious ! ;-)
You guys just can't answer them.
Perhaps it's because you don't understand the science of tooth whitening or that you don't care about the safety of the public who are exposed to poor cross infection control.
The high court has had it's say.
You guys just can't answer them.
Perhaps it's because you don't understand the science of tooth whitening or that you don't care about the safety of the public who are exposed to poor cross infection control.
The high court has had it's say.
fiacloir
hilarious.
the anti-dentist rants continue :-)
the anti-dentist rants continue :-)
FreeSpeech
Come on Gavin you can do better than that,
What is matter with dentists?
Don't you like the truth?
You are on here trying to destroy a woman’s reputation for dentists benefits,
What happens if that was turned on you would you like it?
What is matter with dentists?
Don't you like the truth?
You are on here trying to destroy a woman’s reputation for dentists benefits,
What happens if that was turned on you would you like it?
fiacloir
All I have done is point out legal rulings in the public domain.
I wish only to ensure the public receive safe regulated legal care .
The threats etc on this forum are not very nice.
I wish only to ensure the public receive safe regulated legal care .
The threats etc on this forum are not very nice.
FreeSpeech
No one threatened you Gavin I simply asked an honest question.
So I ask again?
Do you enjoy trying to damage someone’s reputation and would you enjoy it if it were directed at you?
You have a very obscure way of trying deflect blame of your own industry.
As I said, I will post over a 1000 issues relating to dentists and all of them true, would you like to comment.
I think you are on a loser Gavin.
So I ask again?
Do you enjoy trying to damage someone’s reputation and would you enjoy it if it were directed at you?
You have a very obscure way of trying deflect blame of your own industry.
As I said, I will post over a 1000 issues relating to dentists and all of them true, would you like to comment.
I think you are on a loser Gavin.
fiacloir
i am not trying to destroy anyones reputation.
i have posted publically available links about illegal tooth whitening.
I have mentioned no ones name and disparaged no one. I have poken about illegal tooth whiteners in a general manner.
I'm sure that those people who are engaged in 'tooth whitening' , but are not dental professionals regulated by the GDC, are nice people.
I'm just not sure that they understand how it works, or that the materials they use are safe/effective.
In the last 6-9 months, on this forum, not one non-denta person has been capable of answering how non peroxide or <0.1%HP will whiten teeth.
Sodium perborate is not non-peroxide, as it produces hydrogen peroxide in breaking down.....
I have limited my responses to the subject of tooth whitening as that's what the topic was about.
You brought up the other issues. I'm sticking to the subject. Can you?
the original question in this forum was
'is teeth whitening illegal for non dentists?'
The answer is a clear NO
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Tooth-whitening-is-dentistry,-High-Court-confirms.aspx
i have posted publically available links about illegal tooth whitening.
I have mentioned no ones name and disparaged no one. I have poken about illegal tooth whiteners in a general manner.
I'm sure that those people who are engaged in 'tooth whitening' , but are not dental professionals regulated by the GDC, are nice people.
I'm just not sure that they understand how it works, or that the materials they use are safe/effective.
In the last 6-9 months, on this forum, not one non-denta person has been capable of answering how non peroxide or <0.1%HP will whiten teeth.
Sodium perborate is not non-peroxide, as it produces hydrogen peroxide in breaking down.....
I have limited my responses to the subject of tooth whitening as that's what the topic was about.
You brought up the other issues. I'm sticking to the subject. Can you?
the original question in this forum was
'is teeth whitening illegal for non dentists?'
The answer is a clear NO
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Tooth-whitening-is-dentistry,-High-Court-confirms.aspx
fiacloir
sorry.
typo in the last posting.
the original question in this forum was
'is teeth whitening illegal for non dentists?'
The answer is a clear YES, it is illegal for non dentists: see the ruling.
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Tooth-whitening-is-dentistry,-High-Court-confirms.aspx
typo in the last posting.
the original question in this forum was
'is teeth whitening illegal for non dentists?'
The answer is a clear YES, it is illegal for non dentists: see the ruling.
http://www.gdc-uk.org/Newsandpublications/Pressreleases/Pages/Tooth-whitening-is-dentistry,-High-Court-confirms.aspx
FreeSpeech
As I said, to you Gavin, obviously paid by the GDC to sit at your computer all night trying to destroy someone’s reputation.
You falsely accused of threatening you,
I receive no apology so what does that make you Gavin from Roseneath Dental Surgery in Surrey? How can anyone trust a dentist if they are willing to make false and derogatory comments about someone purely to assist in damaging someone else in an open format.
I take it you would now like to comment on you? Am I correct in that assumption?
You falsely accused of threatening you,
I receive no apology so what does that make you Gavin from Roseneath Dental Surgery in Surrey? How can anyone trust a dentist if they are willing to make false and derogatory comments about someone purely to assist in damaging someone else in an open format.
I take it you would now like to comment on you? Am I correct in that assumption?
fiacloir
I am delighted to apologise for any slight you or any others may have felt by my mentioning issues that are in the public domain.
You on the other hand have specifically mentioned somebodies name and work address on a public forum and suggested that you wish to publically comment on them.
You on the other hand have specifically mentioned somebodies name and work address on a public forum and suggested that you wish to publically comment on them.
FreeSpeech
Gavin,
I am very willing to let you know who I am and I can provide this by legal correspondence directed to you at your dental practice if you would like me too?
We can have all this out in the open in-front of a judge if you would like and we can leave the judge to determine who is right and who is wrong?
Would you like to go down that route?
For your information, I can assure you I am not a stranger to the courts, and there is a law covering the false and derogatory statements you made about me.
You made an incorrect apology Gavin, I repeat again for any reader, Gavin a dentist from Roseneath Dental Surgery in Surrey falsely accused me of threatening him.
You now mention me posting your name when you have already posted in the public domain, your username is the same as your twitter account, your twitter account directs you to your website and you’re the only male on your website Gavin it doesn’t take a rocket scientist or a dentist to figure out that you chose to have your name in the public domain not me. I think it is in the public interests that people are aware that the pro- GDC person is actually a dentist.
Now I have three further questions for you.
How much do you charge for whitening someone’s teeth?
Is your website legal?
And finally is everything true on your website?
I am very willing to let you know who I am and I can provide this by legal correspondence directed to you at your dental practice if you would like me too?
We can have all this out in the open in-front of a judge if you would like and we can leave the judge to determine who is right and who is wrong?
Would you like to go down that route?
For your information, I can assure you I am not a stranger to the courts, and there is a law covering the false and derogatory statements you made about me.
You made an incorrect apology Gavin, I repeat again for any reader, Gavin a dentist from Roseneath Dental Surgery in Surrey falsely accused me of threatening him.
You now mention me posting your name when you have already posted in the public domain, your username is the same as your twitter account, your twitter account directs you to your website and you’re the only male on your website Gavin it doesn’t take a rocket scientist or a dentist to figure out that you chose to have your name in the public domain not me. I think it is in the public interests that people are aware that the pro- GDC person is actually a dentist.
Now I have three further questions for you.
How much do you charge for whitening someone’s teeth?
Is your website legal?
And finally is everything true on your website?
FreeSpeech
The name of the dentist surgery and the county is not an address; an address consists of name of street, name of town or city and a postcode. For those people that do not have letters after their name; can you provide proof that I posted your address? Also that your name is not in the public domain? I ask a simple question if your name is not already in the public domain, how did I find it so easily?
den201
Lorna please correct me if I am wrong.
It has not been proven that teeth whitening is the practice of dentistry. The case failed on section 37 of the Dentistry Act. This is a very important fact.
From what I have read the lady is appealing on the other matters and until the case has been heard in the supreme court and maybe the EU court NO-ONE one can make a categorical statement that teeth whitening is the act of Dentistry. At present it is simply the GDC's opinion.
It is illegal for both dentists and non-dentists to breach the cosmetic regulations, which changed on 1 November 2012.
The permitted levels of peroxide that can be used by or supervised by a dentist is between 0.1 and 6%.
All dentists breached this legislation prior to 1.11.12 and many used 25% (Zoom) and in some cases higher levels. Therefore, the GDC and dentists should not sweepingly point the finger at all non-dentists regarding law infringements.
Non-dentist can use up to 0.1% peroxide, here is a copy of the EU Directive:
"In accordance with the provisions of Directive 2011/84/UE, products whitening or bleaching teeth containing 0.1% or less of hydrogen peroxide present or released can be freely placed on the market and can be readily available to consumers. The Directive does not impose restrictions on the training of people who would use these products.
Consumers themselves can apply these products, as well as dentists or others."
This is the same for all non restricted cosmetic products in the EU. I cannot identify one cosmetic product that cannot be used by a lay person or a beautician in any target area i.e. the face, in and around the mouth or body.
It is illegal for any non-dentist to give clinical dental advice or purport to be a dentist.
The cases on the GDC site are deliberately misleading to those who do not understand the full meaning of the legislation.
All the reviews about the treatment by this company have been positive, no-one has been harmed and no breach of the cosmetic legislation has been committed.
All cosmetics used within the EU have to meet stringent standards before they can be used by the public and are policed by Trading Standards.
It has not been proven that teeth whitening is the practice of dentistry. The case failed on section 37 of the Dentistry Act. This is a very important fact.
From what I have read the lady is appealing on the other matters and until the case has been heard in the supreme court and maybe the EU court NO-ONE one can make a categorical statement that teeth whitening is the act of Dentistry. At present it is simply the GDC's opinion.
It is illegal for both dentists and non-dentists to breach the cosmetic regulations, which changed on 1 November 2012.
The permitted levels of peroxide that can be used by or supervised by a dentist is between 0.1 and 6%.
All dentists breached this legislation prior to 1.11.12 and many used 25% (Zoom) and in some cases higher levels. Therefore, the GDC and dentists should not sweepingly point the finger at all non-dentists regarding law infringements.
Non-dentist can use up to 0.1% peroxide, here is a copy of the EU Directive:
"In accordance with the provisions of Directive 2011/84/UE, products whitening or bleaching teeth containing 0.1% or less of hydrogen peroxide present or released can be freely placed on the market and can be readily available to consumers. The Directive does not impose restrictions on the training of people who would use these products.
Consumers themselves can apply these products, as well as dentists or others."
This is the same for all non restricted cosmetic products in the EU. I cannot identify one cosmetic product that cannot be used by a lay person or a beautician in any target area i.e. the face, in and around the mouth or body.
It is illegal for any non-dentist to give clinical dental advice or purport to be a dentist.
The cases on the GDC site are deliberately misleading to those who do not understand the full meaning of the legislation.
All the reviews about the treatment by this company have been positive, no-one has been harmed and no breach of the cosmetic legislation has been committed.
All cosmetics used within the EU have to meet stringent standards before they can be used by the public and are policed by Trading Standards.
den201
Trading Standards - Teeth Whitening
Trading Standards have recently examined whether or not there is a problem with businesses supplying teeth whitening products containing illegally high levels of hydrogen peroxide.
This briefing is produced as a consequence of the results of this project and is intended to advise businesses of the laws that apply in relation to the supply of these products and how to keep your business within the law.
Who is Affected?
Anyone who sells, or offers, teeth whitening products to consumers, either in a shop, online or as a treatment at your beauty salon/dental surgery.
There is no distinction between products bought by consumers and self applied and those applied during a course of treatment by a professional.
Cosmetic Product?
Defined by The Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008 as referring to
six functions: -
• To clean
• To perfume
• To change the appearance
• To protect
• To keep in good condition
• To correct body odours
The field of application is to:
• The hair system
• The lips
• The nails
• The epidermis
• The external genital organs
• The teeth and inside the mouth
Teeth Whitening products are applied to the teeth and inside the mouth and they are exclusively to change the appearance of coloured teeth and there is little doubt that they are deemed to be cosmetic products.
This is an area of work that is enforced by Trading Standards.
Summary of the Law
The Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008 prohibit and restrict the use and supply of certain ingredients in cosmetic products supplied to consumers.
Many teeth whitening products can contain more than the safe and permitted level of hydrogen peroxide and anyone who supplies these to consumers can commit an offence.
The maximum permitted level of hydrogen peroxide for is 0.1% (legislation prior to 1.11.12 . This percentage relates to amounts of hydrogen peroxide present in the product itself, but it also relates to other chemical ingredients which when added together give off hydrogen peroxide i.e. carbamide peroxide.
The purpose of the legislation is to protect consumers from unsafe cosmetic products being supplied to them.
Trading Standards have recently examined whether or not there is a problem with businesses supplying teeth whitening products containing illegally high levels of hydrogen peroxide.
This briefing is produced as a consequence of the results of this project and is intended to advise businesses of the laws that apply in relation to the supply of these products and how to keep your business within the law.
Who is Affected?
Anyone who sells, or offers, teeth whitening products to consumers, either in a shop, online or as a treatment at your beauty salon/dental surgery.
There is no distinction between products bought by consumers and self applied and those applied during a course of treatment by a professional.
Cosmetic Product?
Defined by The Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008 as referring to
six functions: -
• To clean
• To perfume
• To change the appearance
• To protect
• To keep in good condition
• To correct body odours
The field of application is to:
• The hair system
• The lips
• The nails
• The epidermis
• The external genital organs
• The teeth and inside the mouth
Teeth Whitening products are applied to the teeth and inside the mouth and they are exclusively to change the appearance of coloured teeth and there is little doubt that they are deemed to be cosmetic products.
This is an area of work that is enforced by Trading Standards.
Summary of the Law
The Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008 prohibit and restrict the use and supply of certain ingredients in cosmetic products supplied to consumers.
Many teeth whitening products can contain more than the safe and permitted level of hydrogen peroxide and anyone who supplies these to consumers can commit an offence.
The maximum permitted level of hydrogen peroxide for is 0.1% (legislation prior to 1.11.12 . This percentage relates to amounts of hydrogen peroxide present in the product itself, but it also relates to other chemical ingredients which when added together give off hydrogen peroxide i.e. carbamide peroxide.
The purpose of the legislation is to protect consumers from unsafe cosmetic products being supplied to them.
den201
I am pleased to see Fiacloir, the dentist has been removed from this site.
I believe he was bringing the Dentist profession into disrepute.
Hence the postings above do no flow properly.
I believe he was bringing the Dentist profession into disrepute.
Hence the postings above do no flow properly.
den201
Is cosmetic treatment the practice of dentistry?
As defined in Section 37 of the Act, the practice of dentistry shall 'include the performance of any such operation and the giving of any such treatment, advice or attendance as is usually performed or given by dentists'.
Subsection 37(1) also makes it clear that any treatment, advice or attendance, which is usually performed by dentists, must be carried out by a GDC registered dentist.
According to the GDC it must then follow that Dental Nurses, Hygienists, and Dental Therapist etc. cannot clean or whiten teeth either!
However, it is interesting that the GDC are happy to follow the new EU Directive regarding teeth whitening, but chooses to ignore the same directive which allows non-dentist to use teeth whitening products containing 0.1 peroxide unsupervised and without any qualifications.
As defined in Section 37 of the Act, the practice of dentistry shall 'include the performance of any such operation and the giving of any such treatment, advice or attendance as is usually performed or given by dentists'.
Subsection 37(1) also makes it clear that any treatment, advice or attendance, which is usually performed by dentists, must be carried out by a GDC registered dentist.
According to the GDC it must then follow that Dental Nurses, Hygienists, and Dental Therapist etc. cannot clean or whiten teeth either!
However, it is interesting that the GDC are happy to follow the new EU Directive regarding teeth whitening, but chooses to ignore the same directive which allows non-dentist to use teeth whitening products containing 0.1 peroxide unsupervised and without any qualifications.
powley
i use sodium perobate a non peroxide product but i would like to know is it illegal to paint it on and not use a mouth guard? or is the illegal side of it just the product been used?
trombie
Sodium perborate is hydrogen p peroxide, it breaks down on contact with water to form hydrogen peroxide and is classified by the EU as a peroxide. It is also next to be banned as it is classed as toxic to human reproduction. Also as the recent lorna jamous case demonstrated regardless of the chemical used tooth whitening is the practice of dentistry so no matter what chemical you use if you are paid to whiten someone's teeth you are breaking the law.
powley
well no its not realy is it if there are thousands of people doing it i dont go into aclients mouth i use mouth guards they place it in them selves so technically there whitening there own teeth using my light. so you havent answerd my questioned you just straight said its illegal all tigether which ut is not!
trombie
sodium perborate is classed by the EU as hydrogen peroxide and on that basis alone it is illegal for a non dentist to use it, but additionally no ethical person would use it as you described because of the health risks outlined in this EU document which describes why it is to be banned http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/04_sccp/docs/sccp_o_122.pdf if you don't want to read it all the phrase to look for is at the end of the document and I quote " Conclusion
It is proposed by ECB for inclusion in ATP31 that sodium perborate should be classified as
toxic to reproduction category 2; R61
May cause harm to the unborn child
and category 3;
R62
Possible risk of impaired fertility
(
http://ecb.jrc.it/classification-labelling/search-
classlab/
(Search Working Database))
.
This will imply that sodium perborate can not be
used in tooth whitening products. "
It is proposed by ECB for inclusion in ATP31 that sodium perborate should be classified as
toxic to reproduction category 2; R61
May cause harm to the unborn child
and category 3;
R62
Possible risk of impaired fertility
(
http://ecb.jrc.it/classification-labelling/search-
classlab/
(Search Working Database))
.
This will imply that sodium perborate can not be
used in tooth whitening products. "
trombie
sodium perborate is classed by the EU as hydrogen peroxide and on that basis alone it is illegal for a non dentist to use it, but additionally no ethical person would use it as you described because of the health risks outlined in this EU document which describes why it is to be banned http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/04_sccp/docs/sccp_o_122.pdf if you don't want to read it all the phrase to look for is at the end of the document and I quote " Conclusion
It is proposed by ECB for inclusion in ATP31 that sodium perborate should be classified as
toxic to reproduction category 2; R61
May cause harm to the unborn child
and category 3;
R62
Possible risk of impaired fertility
(
http://ecb.jrc.it/classification-labelling/search-
classlab/
(Search Working Database))
.
This will imply that sodium perborate can not be
used in tooth whitening products. "
It is proposed by ECB for inclusion in ATP31 that sodium perborate should be classified as
toxic to reproduction category 2; R61
May cause harm to the unborn child
and category 3;
R62
Possible risk of impaired fertility
(
http://ecb.jrc.it/classification-labelling/search-
classlab/
(Search Working Database))
.
This will imply that sodium perborate can not be
used in tooth whitening products. "
trombie
sodium perborate is classed by the EU as hydrogen peroxide and on that basis alone it is illegal for a non dentist to use it, but additionally no ethical person would use it as you described because of the health risks outlined in this EU document which describes why it is to be banned http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/04_sccp/docs/sccp_o_122.pdf if you don't want to read it all the phrase to look for is at the end of the document and I quote " Conclusion
It is proposed by ECB for inclusion in ATP31 that sodium perborate should be classified as
toxic to reproduction category 2; R61
May cause harm to the unborn child
and category 3;
R62
Possible risk of impaired fertility
(
http://ecb.jrc.it/classification-labelling/search-
classlab/
(Search Working Database))
.
This will imply that sodium perborate can not be
used in tooth whitening products. "
It is proposed by ECB for inclusion in ATP31 that sodium perborate should be classified as
toxic to reproduction category 2; R61
May cause harm to the unborn child
and category 3;
R62
Possible risk of impaired fertility
(
http://ecb.jrc.it/classification-labelling/search-
classlab/
(Search Working Database))
.
This will imply that sodium perborate can not be
used in tooth whitening products. "
powley
thats if someone is pregnant u are not allowed to do teeth whitening if someone is pregnant samewith alot of stuff like colouring hair. it is not illegal to use sodium perobate for teeth whitening!!!!
trombie
I'm sorry but you misunderstand , sodium perborate is toxic to reproduction in both men and women. That means you do not have to be pregnant for it to affect someone it affects men's sperm and women's eggs and that is what causes the problems to the embryos even months after sodium perborate is ingested. Manufacturers of denture cleaners and mouthwash have already withdrawn sodium perborate as an ingredient in Europe in preparation for the ban because of the health concerns.
Moreover sodium perborate when it comes into contact with water breaks down to form hydrogen peroxide that is what bleaches, and according to the law it's not just hydrogen peroxide that it's not legal for non dentists to use its also compounds that produce hydrogen peroxide e.g. carbamine peroxide and sodium perborate.
Regardless of this the risks to people from a substance known to be toxic means sodium perborate can never ethically be used on innocent members of the public in the manner described and sodium perborate is due to be banned soon because of its toxicity.
Moreover sodium perborate when it comes into contact with water breaks down to form hydrogen peroxide that is what bleaches, and according to the law it's not just hydrogen peroxide that it's not legal for non dentists to use its also compounds that produce hydrogen peroxide e.g. carbamine peroxide and sodium perborate.
Regardless of this the risks to people from a substance known to be toxic means sodium perborate can never ethically be used on innocent members of the public in the manner described and sodium perborate is due to be banned soon because of its toxicity.
tajak2012
Sodium Perborate breaks down to Hydrogen Peroxide, Only dentists are allowed to supply to the public whitening products above 0.1% hydrogen peroxide (upto 6%) and the regulations state that the first application of any peroxide based whitening product must be done by a dentist. ALl this information is available online. Anyone who is not on the GDC register who is doing any whitening that involves >0.1% peroxide products, or involves touching the customers mouth in any way risks a run in with the GDC ( who now have case law to back up their claim that whitening is the practice of dentistry) and trading standards
tajak2012
Sodium Perborate breaks down to Hydrogen Peroxide, Only dentists are allowed to supply to the public whitening products above 0.1% hydrogen peroxide (upto 6%) and the regulations state that the first application of any peroxide based whitening product must be done by a dentist. ALl this information is available online. Anyone who is not on the GDC register who is doing any whitening that involves >0.1% peroxide products, or involves touching the customers mouth in any way risks a run in with the GDC ( who now have case law to back up their claim that whitening is the practice of dentistry) and trading standards
hazash
Can I just confirm the only way a non dentist can carry out teeth whitening is using trays which the customer puts in their own mouth filled with gel that is non peroxide and then placing the led light over them !! :)
trombie
No. The Lorna Jamous case confirmed that no matter what system used , if you taking money for advising , supervising or assisting in tooth whitening you are breaking the law as tooth whitening is the practice of the dentistry. You do not have to touch the person to break the law.
trombie
No. The Lorna Jamous case confirmed that no matter what system used , if you taking money for advising , supervising or assisting in tooth whitening you are breaking the law as tooth whitening is the practice of the dentistry. You do not have to touch the person to break the law.
DaveDoyle
Hi all. I can see, both sides here, 6 of one, half dozen of the other, either dentist, or hi street toiletries supplier, I don`t want to mention the 2 or 3 main massive stores where we all go for Paracetamol, but I can guess you know who I mean. I am still unclear, I can buy a bottle of real H Peroxide from the chemist, in 2013 under £1, well over 6%. So are they breaking the law?
I can also buy teeth whitening kits over the counter from there, are they breaking the law? Will GDC pop in & say stop?
Q: Tap water (Yours & Mine) Contains Chlorine, low dose I know, used as an addition in lightening gels to oxidize, lift stains . same as the pool at the gym. I sometimes ingest tap water & swimming pool water, am I to be concerned for the impact of my reproductive system, from accidental ingestion of swimming pool & Tap water?
The hi street drug stores are strongly pushing teeth lightening products, not just HP +/- 0.1% but even chewing gum, some contain Perborate, Carbamide & similar, to cause oxidization, & Newer stuff on the market, as well as mouth washes. I am not a Dentist, I am a lay person. I have read the Cosmetic bit again & Again, to clean teeth cosmetically inside the mouth, I am still undecided, if it is a medical procedure, or cosmetic . Are the hi street chemists going to get sued, selling mouth wash & chewing gum to lighten teeth?
I have a business in the west country Devon. I have invested in the kit, L.E.D. Lamp, (or Non Laser) Although L A S E R is a wavelength of light coherent, meaning not all other wavelengths, just one type i.e. 495um Nanometers to speed up the lightening,, so Actually the L.E.D` Lamps that are just 1 wavelength, could be called Laser. Or am I wrong? The light in your home, bedroom bathroom etc right now is a multiplex of lots of wavelengths, or NON LASER. The L.E.D Curing Lamp may, be called a Laser, as it is 1 (one) Wavelength, coherent.
Nail varnish, hair dye, topical creams, anti bacteria / fungals & pain relief etc, are all put on as cosmetic procedures. either self or a treatment agree or not please? I may go as far as to say they are cosmetic.
Therefore, is toothpaste, from all good supermarkets, containing any percent of lightening/whitening oxidizing, or not, are they self administered cosmetics? Y / N ?
I am not a Dentist. Honestly, I wish I was. Just telling the truth what I feel. I think to practice Dentistry, I would imagine is invasive, surgical with a very high degree of knowledge, nerves, blood vessels, veins, bone, soft tissue, tooth anatomy and so on. I am not a dentist.
I think, it is a shame, that non dentists, can`t legally use, a cosmetic over the counter non peroxide, gel, that IS Safe, to lighten teeth, administered under a trained watchful eye, privately by a qualified individual, rather than a teenager, late teen, over 18 of course, as under 18`s don`t want to lighten their teeth do they, with a self administering a bottle of what ever they can find, undiluted straight into their mouths, sitting in a make shift tray over night?
I have read the house of lords bumf as well. section (e) For Dentists Only... if HP over 0.01%
So... Where do we go? Ban everyone, even Dentists as our reproductive organs will shrivel up, as well as hi street drug stores & supermarkets, or... Identify & LABEL a safe peroxide alternative, that non Dentists can use legally cosmetically? Like I say I am not a Dentist, I have bought the kit, I have done the training for Non HP & .... Wait for it, Trained for HP. One is Using non latex gloves, sealed pre filled gum shields & lamp, no touchy feely, like the hair dressers do with HP, & Nail bars, & ... I did the training with HP, gum dam` & lamp. I am not trading as teeth lightening, either selling home kits or doing it chairside, I still do not know, which NON HP Products I can use, as 50% of us here say NO to everything. Please can we agree that non dentists can or can`t do X Y or Z but CAN do A B & C with D. here is an odd one for you, Animals have nice teeth, no flossing, brushing or rinsing? I wonder if Flossing does more harm? does Fluoride really work?
Please help a poor misguided lay person. Thanks.
I can also buy teeth whitening kits over the counter from there, are they breaking the law? Will GDC pop in & say stop?
Q: Tap water (Yours & Mine) Contains Chlorine, low dose I know, used as an addition in lightening gels to oxidize, lift stains . same as the pool at the gym. I sometimes ingest tap water & swimming pool water, am I to be concerned for the impact of my reproductive system, from accidental ingestion of swimming pool & Tap water?
The hi street drug stores are strongly pushing teeth lightening products, not just HP +/- 0.1% but even chewing gum, some contain Perborate, Carbamide & similar, to cause oxidization, & Newer stuff on the market, as well as mouth washes. I am not a Dentist, I am a lay person. I have read the Cosmetic bit again & Again, to clean teeth cosmetically inside the mouth, I am still undecided, if it is a medical procedure, or cosmetic . Are the hi street chemists going to get sued, selling mouth wash & chewing gum to lighten teeth?
I have a business in the west country Devon. I have invested in the kit, L.E.D. Lamp, (or Non Laser) Although L A S E R is a wavelength of light coherent, meaning not all other wavelengths, just one type i.e. 495um Nanometers to speed up the lightening,, so Actually the L.E.D` Lamps that are just 1 wavelength, could be called Laser. Or am I wrong? The light in your home, bedroom bathroom etc right now is a multiplex of lots of wavelengths, or NON LASER. The L.E.D Curing Lamp may, be called a Laser, as it is 1 (one) Wavelength, coherent.
Nail varnish, hair dye, topical creams, anti bacteria / fungals & pain relief etc, are all put on as cosmetic procedures. either self or a treatment agree or not please? I may go as far as to say they are cosmetic.
Therefore, is toothpaste, from all good supermarkets, containing any percent of lightening/whitening oxidizing, or not, are they self administered cosmetics? Y / N ?
I am not a Dentist. Honestly, I wish I was. Just telling the truth what I feel. I think to practice Dentistry, I would imagine is invasive, surgical with a very high degree of knowledge, nerves, blood vessels, veins, bone, soft tissue, tooth anatomy and so on. I am not a dentist.
I think, it is a shame, that non dentists, can`t legally use, a cosmetic over the counter non peroxide, gel, that IS Safe, to lighten teeth, administered under a trained watchful eye, privately by a qualified individual, rather than a teenager, late teen, over 18 of course, as under 18`s don`t want to lighten their teeth do they, with a self administering a bottle of what ever they can find, undiluted straight into their mouths, sitting in a make shift tray over night?
I have read the house of lords bumf as well. section (e) For Dentists Only... if HP over 0.01%
So... Where do we go? Ban everyone, even Dentists as our reproductive organs will shrivel up, as well as hi street drug stores & supermarkets, or... Identify & LABEL a safe peroxide alternative, that non Dentists can use legally cosmetically? Like I say I am not a Dentist, I have bought the kit, I have done the training for Non HP & .... Wait for it, Trained for HP. One is Using non latex gloves, sealed pre filled gum shields & lamp, no touchy feely, like the hair dressers do with HP, & Nail bars, & ... I did the training with HP, gum dam` & lamp. I am not trading as teeth lightening, either selling home kits or doing it chairside, I still do not know, which NON HP Products I can use, as 50% of us here say NO to everything. Please can we agree that non dentists can or can`t do X Y or Z but CAN do A B & C with D. here is an odd one for you, Animals have nice teeth, no flossing, brushing or rinsing? I wonder if Flossing does more harm? does Fluoride really work?
Please help a poor misguided lay person. Thanks.
DaveDoyle
Hi all. I can see, both sides here, 6 of one, half dozen of the other, either dentist, or hi street toiletries supplier, I don`t want to mention the 2 or 3 main massive stores where we all go for Paracetamol, but I can guess you know who I mean. I am still unclear, I can buy a bottle of real H Peroxide from the chemist, in 2013 under £1, well over 6%. So are they breaking the law?
I can also buy teeth whitening kits over the counter from there, are they breaking the law? Will GDC pop in & say stop?
Q: Tap water (Yours & Mine) Contains Chlorine, low dose I know, used as an addition in lightening gels to oxidize, lift stains . same as the pool at the gym. I sometimes ingest tap water & swimming pool water, am I to be concerned for the impact of my reproductive system, from accidental ingestion of swimming pool & Tap water?
The hi street drug stores are strongly pushing teeth lightening products, not just HP +/- 0.1% but even chewing gum, some contain Perborate, Carbamide & similar, to cause oxidization, & Newer stuff on the market, as well as mouth washes. I am not a Dentist, I am a lay person. I have read the Cosmetic bit again & Again, to clean teeth cosmetically inside the mouth, I am still undecided, if it is a medical procedure, or cosmetic . Are the hi street chemists going to get sued, selling mouth wash & chewing gum to lighten teeth?
I have a business in the west country Devon. I have invested in the kit, L.E.D. Lamp, (or Non Laser) Although L A S E R is a wavelength of light coherent, meaning not all other wavelengths, just one type i.e. 495um Nanometers to speed up the lightening,, so Actually the L.E.D` Lamps that are just 1 wavelength, could be called Laser. Or am I wrong? The light in your home, bedroom bathroom etc right now is a multiplex of lots of wavelengths, or NON LASER. The L.E.D Curing Lamp may, be called a Laser, as it is 1 (one) Wavelength, coherent.
Nail varnish, hair dye, topical creams, anti bacteria / fungals & pain relief etc, are all put on as cosmetic procedures. either self or a treatment agree or not please? I may go as far as to say they are cosmetic.
Therefore, is toothpaste, from all good supermarkets, containing any percent of lightening/whitening oxidizing, or not, are they self administered cosmetics? Y / N ?
I am not a Dentist. Honestly, I wish I was. Just telling the truth what I feel. I think to practice Dentistry, I would imagine is invasive, surgical with a very high degree of knowledge, nerves, blood vessels, veins, bone, soft tissue, tooth anatomy and so on. I am not a dentist.
I think, it is a shame, that non dentists, can`t legally use, a cosmetic over the counter non peroxide, gel, that IS Safe, to lighten teeth, administered under a trained watchful eye, privately by a qualified individual, rather than a teenager, late teen, over 18 of course, as under 18`s don`t want to lighten their teeth do they, with a self administering a bottle of what ever they can find, undiluted straight into their mouths, sitting in a make shift tray over night?
I have read the house of lords bumf as well. section (e) For Dentists Only... if HP over 0.01%
So... Where do we go? Ban everyone, even Dentists as our reproductive organs will shrivel up, as well as hi street drug stores & supermarkets, or... Identify & LABEL a safe peroxide alternative, that non Dentists can use legally cosmetically? Like I say I am not a Dentist, I have bought the kit, I have done the training for Non HP & .... Wait for it, Trained for HP. One is Using non latex gloves, sealed pre filled gum shields & lamp, no touchy feely, like the hair dressers do with HP, & Nail bars, & ... I did the training with HP, gum dam` & lamp. I am not trading as teeth lightening, either selling home kits or doing it chairside, I still do not know, which NON HP Products I can use, as 50% of us here say NO to everything. Please can we agree that non dentists can or can`t do X Y or Z but CAN do A B & C with D. here is an odd one for you, Animals have nice teeth, no flossing, brushing or rinsing? I wonder if Flossing does more harm? does Fluoride really work?
Please help a poor misguided lay person. Thanks.
I can also buy teeth whitening kits over the counter from there, are they breaking the law? Will GDC pop in & say stop?
Q: Tap water (Yours & Mine) Contains Chlorine, low dose I know, used as an addition in lightening gels to oxidize, lift stains . same as the pool at the gym. I sometimes ingest tap water & swimming pool water, am I to be concerned for the impact of my reproductive system, from accidental ingestion of swimming pool & Tap water?
The hi street drug stores are strongly pushing teeth lightening products, not just HP +/- 0.1% but even chewing gum, some contain Perborate, Carbamide & similar, to cause oxidization, & Newer stuff on the market, as well as mouth washes. I am not a Dentist, I am a lay person. I have read the Cosmetic bit again & Again, to clean teeth cosmetically inside the mouth, I am still undecided, if it is a medical procedure, or cosmetic . Are the hi street chemists going to get sued, selling mouth wash & chewing gum to lighten teeth?
I have a business in the west country Devon. I have invested in the kit, L.E.D. Lamp, (or Non Laser) Although L A S E R is a wavelength of light coherent, meaning not all other wavelengths, just one type i.e. 495um Nanometers to speed up the lightening,, so Actually the L.E.D` Lamps that are just 1 wavelength, could be called Laser. Or am I wrong? The light in your home, bedroom bathroom etc right now is a multiplex of lots of wavelengths, or NON LASER. The L.E.D Curing Lamp may, be called a Laser, as it is 1 (one) Wavelength, coherent.
Nail varnish, hair dye, topical creams, anti bacteria / fungals & pain relief etc, are all put on as cosmetic procedures. either self or a treatment agree or not please? I may go as far as to say they are cosmetic.
Therefore, is toothpaste, from all good supermarkets, containing any percent of lightening/whitening oxidizing, or not, are they self administered cosmetics? Y / N ?
I am not a Dentist. Honestly, I wish I was. Just telling the truth what I feel. I think to practice Dentistry, I would imagine is invasive, surgical with a very high degree of knowledge, nerves, blood vessels, veins, bone, soft tissue, tooth anatomy and so on. I am not a dentist.
I think, it is a shame, that non dentists, can`t legally use, a cosmetic over the counter non peroxide, gel, that IS Safe, to lighten teeth, administered under a trained watchful eye, privately by a qualified individual, rather than a teenager, late teen, over 18 of course, as under 18`s don`t want to lighten their teeth do they, with a self administering a bottle of what ever they can find, undiluted straight into their mouths, sitting in a make shift tray over night?
I have read the house of lords bumf as well. section (e) For Dentists Only... if HP over 0.01%
So... Where do we go? Ban everyone, even Dentists as our reproductive organs will shrivel up, as well as hi street drug stores & supermarkets, or... Identify & LABEL a safe peroxide alternative, that non Dentists can use legally cosmetically? Like I say I am not a Dentist, I have bought the kit, I have done the training for Non HP & .... Wait for it, Trained for HP. One is Using non latex gloves, sealed pre filled gum shields & lamp, no touchy feely, like the hair dressers do with HP, & Nail bars, & ... I did the training with HP, gum dam` & lamp. I am not trading as teeth lightening, either selling home kits or doing it chairside, I still do not know, which NON HP Products I can use, as 50% of us here say NO to everything. Please can we agree that non dentists can or can`t do X Y or Z but CAN do A B & C with D. here is an odd one for you, Animals have nice teeth, no flossing, brushing or rinsing? I wonder if Flossing does more harm? does Fluoride really work?
Please help a poor misguided lay person. Thanks.
trombie
Trading standards are responsible for policing hydrogen peroxide in kits, etc not the GDC.
The GDC polices dentistry. Any chemical strong enough to change the colour of teeth or remove stains etc can harm oral health. Tooth whitening isn't difficult, however it takes years of continuous study to be able to diagnose those on whom tooth whitening should not be done.
A few years ago BABTAC reported over 400 cases of people being damaged by illegal whiteners.
The problem is if a dental therapist has done three years of a degree in oral health and cannot prescribe tooth whitening then how on earth can a lay person with a couple of hours "training" ?
No chemical to lighten or whiten teeth is utterly safe. People can buy kits that will permanently damage them and indeed this is leading to many kits being removed from the market. However the minute someone advises, coaches or counsels someone in whitening teeth if they are not a dentist they have broken the law. All of the prosecution's for illegal tooth whitening have been for illegal practice of dentistry , not public health or peroxide matters. Trading standards prosecute those like this
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2011/october/26/tooth_whitener.aspx
I sincerely hope you are not using a laser to whiten teeth, you would fry them. It's only led lights and this too has led to legal trouble http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2011/6/AllWhite3000-Ltd/TF_ADJ_50785.aspx
For the official line read the nhs website, it doesn't matter what you use if you are not a dentist you cannot provide a tooth whitening service. You may sell legal products but you cannot assist in whitening teeth http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/dentalhealth/Pages/teeth-whitening.aspx
The GDC polices dentistry. Any chemical strong enough to change the colour of teeth or remove stains etc can harm oral health. Tooth whitening isn't difficult, however it takes years of continuous study to be able to diagnose those on whom tooth whitening should not be done.
A few years ago BABTAC reported over 400 cases of people being damaged by illegal whiteners.
The problem is if a dental therapist has done three years of a degree in oral health and cannot prescribe tooth whitening then how on earth can a lay person with a couple of hours "training" ?
No chemical to lighten or whiten teeth is utterly safe. People can buy kits that will permanently damage them and indeed this is leading to many kits being removed from the market. However the minute someone advises, coaches or counsels someone in whitening teeth if they are not a dentist they have broken the law. All of the prosecution's for illegal tooth whitening have been for illegal practice of dentistry , not public health or peroxide matters. Trading standards prosecute those like this
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2011/october/26/tooth_whitener.aspx
I sincerely hope you are not using a laser to whiten teeth, you would fry them. It's only led lights and this too has led to legal trouble http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2011/6/AllWhite3000-Ltd/TF_ADJ_50785.aspx
For the official line read the nhs website, it doesn't matter what you use if you are not a dentist you cannot provide a tooth whitening service. You may sell legal products but you cannot assist in whitening teeth http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/dentalhealth/Pages/teeth-whitening.aspx
whatevertrevor
OMG someone please clear this up! can you or can you not train in teeth whitening? and not be a dentist or hygienist working in the dentist industry? its equal amounts of yes' and no's on this site, so am totally confused as to whether it is legal to offer a service of teeth whitening without being a dentist. Can we not just ask a solicitor to find out? I have come to the end of this thread and no better off than at the beginning. Have i missed something here? actual legislation and facts is what i am after rather than opinions. what is the legislation every where else in the world? is it just the uk having this issue? as i wonder if its dentists getting a bee in their bonnet in the uk, due to that they charge ridiculous amounts of money already even to nhs customers. this is just a service they want kept for themselves. ???? any one? lol
DrSteve
Between 0.1 and 6% is a dentist only. Less than 0.1 can be found in whitening toothpaste and deems ed safe by the GDC - Therefore trying to prosecute someone using less than 0.1% after clearing up the rule is ridiculous and only goes to show it's not about safety but about controlling the money side of things,
DrSteve
My advice is clear if its between 0.1 and 6% you should be a member of the GDC if its a gel containing less than 0.1 and traceable(ie you know whats in it) then its safe for anyone to use, or sell. This already happens across Europe and don't forget it's a European rule not a UK rule. It's juts some people in the UK don't like to see anyone else make money..
whatevertrevor
Thank you for the reply. So if I trained in this-I cannot be prosecuted if using below 0.1% is that correct? Or is it that the GDC are still managing to prosecute practitioners using below that %? It's just I've had a lot of clients ask if I can provide this! But certainly won't invest in something that is only going to cause me grief and kiss of money spent on training. Not do I want a conviction! I am concerned that most places I read that it is illegal for any one other than a dentist to perform this treatment!
Is there any where I can go to get this written in black and white? As I did ask a solicitor online and they referred me to BDA guess what it's a dentistry site so the first thing it says is it is illegal for any one other than a dentist, hygienist or therapist in prescription of dentist to offer this!
I think it's best in leave this alone! And I will have to recommend my clients go to the dentist as pay £300 as I had too several years ago.
Day light robbery! Dr's of the mouth indeed! Why then if i am an nhs patient -does a dentist charge £16-£18 just to look in my mouth? Not giving me any treatment at all if all good? When an actual dr never charges me to give me a check up! Think I will leave it there! Before I'm in touble for slating dentists!
Is there any where I can go to get this written in black and white? As I did ask a solicitor online and they referred me to BDA guess what it's a dentistry site so the first thing it says is it is illegal for any one other than a dentist, hygienist or therapist in prescription of dentist to offer this!
I think it's best in leave this alone! And I will have to recommend my clients go to the dentist as pay £300 as I had too several years ago.
Day light robbery! Dr's of the mouth indeed! Why then if i am an nhs patient -does a dentist charge £16-£18 just to look in my mouth? Not giving me any treatment at all if all good? When an actual dr never charges me to give me a check up! Think I will leave it there! Before I'm in touble for slating dentists!
DrSteve
If its laser and you have to apply a gum dam inside the clients mouth you are better off keeping your £300. If it does not involve entering the clients mouth and gels are certified as safe and below 0.1% peroxide that's completely different. I wouldn't take anything on this forum as gospel on either side though(anyone can claim to be an expert), make your own decision as you have to be comfortable with it.
susanmckillop
Is it now illegal for teeth whitening Technicians who are not D.C.A. registered to carry out whitening..With the new law 31st October 2012..x
den201
Thanks for all the replies. I think I have finally found the answer to my question. Please let me know if I have got it wrong.
After a great deal of research, I have received confirmation from legal experts and the EU Commission that products releasing less than 0.1% can be used freely by non dental professionals. One of the Dentists legal sites also confirms this.
There should be a uniform application of EU law throughout the community.
What the GDC are doing in the media/on the internet and via other sources i.e. leaflets and letters may be considered unlawful as it is likely to be damaging people businesses and reputation. It is certainly very scary for the readers.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it is a free country after all. However, there must be a better and more responsible way for a Regulatory organisation to behave. I did not even receive a reply when I raised my concerns directly with them.
After a great deal of research, I have received confirmation from legal experts and the EU Commission that products releasing less than 0.1% can be used freely by non dental professionals. One of the Dentists legal sites also confirms this.
There should be a uniform application of EU law throughout the community.
What the GDC are doing in the media/on the internet and via other sources i.e. leaflets and letters may be considered unlawful as it is likely to be damaging people businesses and reputation. It is certainly very scary for the readers.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it is a free country after all. However, there must be a better and more responsible way for a Regulatory organisation to behave. I did not even receive a reply when I raised my concerns directly with them.
pearlywhites
The new law that is being passed on the 31st October 2012 is to do with teeth whitening products. Only dentist are allowed to use peroxide based products between 0.1 and 6%. As non practising dentist we are still allowed to use non peroxide products, which are classed as cosmetic products. We have worked closly with trading standards over the past year and they have passed our products as 100% legal to use in the uk. We have all of the cosmetic safety certificates for the use of our products in the uk. We believe we are the only company in the uk that holds these certificates. Trading standards are happy with all of the procedure we have put in place and have tested our products extensively and are happy for us to carry supplying the uk market. If you have any queries or what to chat to a member of our staff then please feel free to get in touch. Thanks Claire x
Diamondssmile
well if it is i would not be in business it can be carry out providing you are fully trained and insured and you use the legal amounts ie if using bleach has to be legal amounts hence why i use peroxide free its fully legal dental associates use same products i use just dont like it as previous person stated on here! its ok for them to perfom botox though say no more think i have made my point
Diamondssmile
well if it is i would not be in business it can be carry out providing you are fully trained and insured and you use the legal amounts ie if using bleach has to be legal amounts hence why i use peroxide free its fully legal dental associates use same products i use just dont like it as previous person stated on here! its ok for them to perfom botox though say no more think i have made my point
ms-hamilton
I believe it's more of a cosmetic procedure as long as the procedure is professionaly carried out by a trained specialist who is trained who carries out a thorough consultation and checks contra indications they dont have to be a Dentist to be honest, but professional from differnt sectors feel like every one is treading on every ones toes in regard to this issue. :-(
clareq
http://www.dentalprotection.org/uk/positionstatements/toothwhitening/
The answer is yes. See the attached stating the new law regarding this, coming in to force this month.
The answer is yes. See the attached stating the new law regarding this, coming in to force this month.
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den201
Hi Clareq
I cannot find any such law.
The Cosmetic Products (Safety) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 comes into force on 31/10/12, that allows Dentists to use peroxide over 0.1% and up to 6%. Products that fall below this level remain cosmetics and safe to used by everyone including Beauticians/non-dentists.
http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/2012/2263/made/data.htm?wrap=true
I cannot find any such law.
The Cosmetic Products (Safety) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 comes into force on 31/10/12, that allows Dentists to use peroxide over 0.1% and up to 6%. Products that fall below this level remain cosmetics and safe to used by everyone including Beauticians/non-dentists.
http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/2012/2263/made/data.htm?wrap=true
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Comments
There is legal basis for your comment.
If you disagree please provide the the legal argument and not what the GDC 'believes' or 'considers' Many people used to believe the world were flat, but they were wrong too.
There is legal basis for your comment.
If you disagree please provide the the legal argument and not what the GDC 'believes' or 'considers' Many people used to believe the world were flat, but they were wrong too.
There is no legal basis for your comment.
If you disagree please provide the the legal argument and not what the GDC 'believes' or 'considers' Many people used to believe the world were flat, but they were wrong too.
This was interesting too. How do the GDC have time to bother with Teeth Whitening cases, when there are far more serious medical matters not being attended to.
http://www.ukqcs.co.uk/news/551/15/GDC-fails-to-monitor-dentists-breaches/
Babtac a few years ago were talking of over four hundred cases of beauticians being sued because of tooth whitening.